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Nov 25, 2014, 03:37 PM
Registered User

Programming a none spektrum TX .


Hello Jim,

I am using a spectrum 6 CH modul which is incorporated in my Graupner Radio.

Of course there is no switch A or B. How to activate the anti panic feature? What function (mixers?) do these switches actually release. Or is there an extra channel for this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Robert R.
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Nov 25, 2014, 03:57 PM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar 20040
Hello Jim,

I am using a spectrum 6 CH modul which is incorporated in my Graupner Radio.

Of course there is no switch A or B. How to activate the anti panic feature? What function (mixers?) do these switches actually release. Or is there an extra channel for this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Robert R.
First let me preface this by saying I know zip about the Graupner and the module you are using

But, the 3 safe flight modes communicate to the tx via channel 5, which is usually the gear channel. You need to have channel 5 mapped to a 3 position switch on the tx to utilize all 3 modes. Which position is which mode you will need to bench test to find out. The beg mode will exhibit wing leveling, int mode will have no wing leveling but will have a flight envelope restriction, and exp mode will have no wing leveling and no flight envelope restriction. You can see in my video above how to test.
Panic mode uses channel 6 (aux 1). It works best assigned to a button or a springloaded toggle switch. You want it to always be "off" until you push the button or toggle. Once you know what switch channel 6 is assigned to then you need to bench test it to see if its "off" until the button is pushed or "on" until the button is pushed. That will tell you if you need to reverse that channel or not.
Again, thoroughly bench testing will help you figure out if you are set up correctly.
You DONT want panic always on.

It sounds complicated, but unfortunately, without a spektrum tx, its going to be. SAFE in the Habu is a 6 channel operation.

Jim
Nov 25, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar

Cute lil Bugger!


Ordered yesterday afternoon, on my doorstep 24 hours later.

Everything looks good but they missed a bit of glue on the port side of the canopy-no big deal.
Set up and bound to my DX9. I used switch B for flight modes and button I for panic mode as with all my SAFE equipped planes. Bench testing shows SAFE performing as expected in all 3 modes. Panic mode activated the control surfaces as expected in numerous orientations of the airframe. When testing, keep in mind that SAFE makes no rudder corrections. Any rudder movement seen can only come from the stick or from the AS3X stabilizer.

Can't wait to try her out--even a tiny steerable tail wheel on this little bugger. Trying to decide if I'll maiden with the gear on my hard dirt runway or hand launch on grass.

Jim
Nov 25, 2014, 07:55 PM
Registered User
Seems like mother nature knows when we get new toys. I have been waiting for a calm day since last Monday. It does look pretty on my counter though :/
Nov 26, 2014, 01:38 AM
Registered User
Good Morning Jim,

Your reply was helpful! Thank you so much.

Best Regards,
Robert R.
Nov 26, 2014, 05:15 AM
Registered User
Hello,

Apart from the panic button, are the various "SAFE flight modes only influence the amount of servo travel. So, this can be programmed with the DUAL RATES function of my transmitter.

Correct?

(I am using a Graupner Radio to fly my E-Flite equipment)

Thanks and regards,
Robert R.
Nov 26, 2014, 08:28 AM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar 20040
Hello,

Apart from the panic button, are the various "SAFE flight modes only influence the amount of servo travel. So, this can be programmed with the DUAL RATES function of my transmitter.

Correct?

(I am using a Graupner Radio to fly my E-Flite equipment)

Thanks and regards,
Robert R.
No the flight modes are not controlled with rates by controlling amount of servo travel. Safe doesnt work by limiting rates. It works by measuring the plane's orientation vs level and has flight envelope restrictions programmed into beg and inter modes to ensure you cant exceed them. Those flight envelope restrictions cant be violated no matter what the rates are.


You can see for yourself by bench testing two scenarios. First set high rates to 100% and low rates to 70% on all 3 control surfaces via your transmitter. Don't worry abt expo.

.
Run your throttle up to 25% so SAFE is active. Then run throttle back down.

Set your rates to 100%.
Put your mode to intermediate.
Push your right stick all the way over to the right. This will give you full up right aileron and full down left aileron. Pick up your plane with your other hand (may need a second person to help). Hold the plane with wings level. Now while still holding the full right aileron stick, slowly bank your plane with your hand to the right simulating a right bank. Keep banking to the right at a greater and greater angle until the ailerons snap back to neutral position on their own. (Still holding the stick "hard over"). The point at which the ailerons snap back to neutral is the maximum flight envelope for banking with safe in intermediate mode.
Now switch to low rates and perform the same experiment. The max bank angle is the same, even though your rates are different.

SAFE doesn't care what your rates are when determining wing leveling or max bank, dive, or climb angles (flight envelope). All rates does is control how fast you can execute the move, not how far the move will be.

You can do a roll in experienced mode with 50-75-or 100% rates. The difference will be the speed of the roll. SAFE doesn't use rates to limit the flight envelope, it wouldn't work. Think of it this way: SAFE will limit the degree to which the plane will bank. The % rate will determine how fast you reach that limit.

Now, that said, SAFE does have some rates built into beginner mode on the elevator which results in more travel allowed with down elevator (climb) than up elevator (dive). This isnt to control flight envelope but to help a beginner not crash by diving too quickly.


I hope I didn't confuse you. I hate to type, lol.

Jim
Last edited by Suenaga; Nov 26, 2014 at 08:46 AM.
Nov 26, 2014, 03:34 PM
Registered User
Hello Jim,

thank you so much for taking the time to explain! I must admit, that the system is more sophisticated than I thought. In the meantime I managed to implement the panic/ rescue function in my Tx. However there is still some work to do for the rest.
For the time being I will use the "Expert mode" only. It is a really nice model ... I had the MIG-15 before.

Kind Regards,
Robert R.
Nov 26, 2014, 05:43 PM
Registered User
I can't get intermediate mode to work via my DX6i. I've set it up exactly as per the manual, but what should be intermediate mode seems to be advanced mode - I can roll the plane right over (only bench tested it) and the plane does not neutralise the ailerons. I've checked the settings over and over again! Help!
Nov 26, 2014, 06:43 PM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xavster
I can't get intermediate mode to work via my DX6i. I've set it up exactly as per the manual, but what should be intermediate mode seems to be advanced mode - I can roll the plane right over (only bench tested it) and the plane does not neutralise the ailerons. I've checked the settings over and over again! Help!
OK--lets review a couple of things here first about setting up with the DX6i.

First if you set everything up via the manual:

Your gear channel (channel 5) must be REVERSED

In order to get to intermediate mode, your gear switch must be in position 1 and your mix switch must be in position 0.

To get to Beginner mode your gear switch must be in position 0 and mix switch in pos 0

To get to Experienced mode your gear switch must be in position 1 and your mix switch must also be in pos 1

For these combinations to work properly you need to ensure that you set up the Mix 1 function exactly as in the manual. I have a DX6i as my backup transmitter and I ran through the manual's directions for setting up the Habus S and there are a LOT of steps --any one of which you may have missed or entered wrong by mistake. I would double check each step, esp steps 5, 6, and 7, and particularly 7 which has the mix 1 instructions.

If all is setup correctly just make sure you are using BOTH the gear and the Mix switches on your tx to select the mode you want.

Have you verified that your panic switch is working and is on the Flap switch (0 is off, 1 is on) ?


The DX6i is not the ideal transmitter for the SAFE system because it really needs a 3 position switch and thus has to use mixing to get all 3 modes to work on it. That in itself complicates things and makes it easier to miss or flub a step. In fact this mixing technique hadn't been used a few months back on S SAFE instructions and so users with the DX6i were limited to only 2 flight modes (but that's another story, lol).

I hope this helps--we will get this nailed down for ya!
Jim
Last edited by Suenaga; Nov 26, 2014 at 06:49 PM.
Nov 26, 2014, 06:51 PM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar 20040
Hello Jim,

thank you so much for taking the time to explain! I must admit, that the system is more sophisticated than I thought. In the meantime I managed to implement the panic/ rescue function in my Tx. However there is still some work to do for the rest.
For the time being I will use the "Expert mode" only. It is a really nice model ... I had the MIG-15 before.

Kind Regards,
Robert R.
My pleasure!

Yes, SAFE isn't your run of the mill gyro and the flight envelope capability is pretty neat--the more sophisticated SAFE Rx in the Apprentice S as well as the SAFE programmed AR636F4U in the Corsair S are really cool as they have even more sophisticated hardware in them. Its awesome that they could get a version of it in a micro like this. On Spektrum transmitters its not hard to setup, esp the new DX6's and the DX9, but other brands (like your Graupner) may prove problematic until folks work something out on their own.

Jim
Nov 26, 2014, 07:21 PM
Registered User
Any flight reports or videos yet? I am debating whether to get one during the Black Friday sale. I am very tempted but would love to hear what folks have to say if they have had a chance to fly it yet. Thanks
Nov 28, 2014, 12:29 AM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peejster
Any flight reports or videos yet? I am debating whether to get one during the Black Friday sale. I am very tempted but would love to hear what folks have to say if they have had a chance to fly it yet. Thanks
I'm going to maiden her Sunday morning and I'll be recording it. I'm not sure how well it will turn out with such a small plane, but will give it a go

Jim
Nov 28, 2014, 11:36 AM
Registered User

Flight modes


After binding, all my UMX models showing a solid red LED confirming that it is done properly.

However our dear HABU 180 S is different:

green and red solid: your are in beginner mode

green flashing: you are in advanced mode

green solid: your are in experience mode

I had to find out the hard way ... why is this not mentioned in the manual?

Regards,
Nov 28, 2014, 11:45 AM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar 20040
After binding, all my UMX models showing a solid red LED confirming that it is done properly.

However our dear HABU 180 S is different:

green and red solid: your are in beginner mode

green flashing: you are in advanced mode

green solid: your are in experience mode

I had to find out the hard way ... why is this not mentioned in the manual?

Regards,
Hmmm thats interesting. I noticed a green light but didnt think much of it, and didnt catch on that it changed with the mode. I'll have to check this out. None of the other SAFE enabled rx's I've seen have this mode/light thing. Thanks for the heads up!

Jim


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