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Aug 26, 2014, 05:34 AM
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Tom Hunt's Avatar
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FPV flying at NEAT


Here are the rules for fixed wing and rotorary wing FPV flying at NEAT.

ALL FPV flying will require TWO spotters. One person to watch the model to make sure it stays within unaided line of site and another to watch for traffic.

Rotorary wing (chopers and mulit-rotors) of ANY size, may not leave the Heli area and MUST stay low enough to not interfere with the overflights of the fixed wing aircraft at higher altitudes.

Small mulitrotors (FPV or not) are NOT allowed in the slow-flyer area. This area is for fixed wing aircraft only.
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Aug 29, 2014, 10:22 PM
How high will it go?
antslake's Avatar
:X

What's "low enough"?

Ever think of having the multirotors on the other end of the field past the slow flyer area?
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Aug 30, 2014, 12:19 PM
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Tom Hunt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by antslake
:X

What's "low enough"?

Ever think of having the multirotors on the other end of the field past the slow flyer area?
about 150-200ft.... and....

no, we are not making yet another flightline... thanks. This is NOT SEFF or Joe Nall.
Aug 30, 2014, 12:28 PM
How high will it go?
antslake's Avatar
I meant to move it, not create another one. On that end they would not interfere. I've noticed that even 150ft there is conflicts as some pilots fly in low, especially the bigger ones. Just my experience from flying down there.
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Sep 08, 2014, 08:11 AM
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Rourke's Avatar
Will there be a frequency table for fpv frequencies?
Thanks
Sep 08, 2014, 09:49 AM
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Tom Hunt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rourke
Will there be a frequency table for fpv frequencies?
Thanks
no, you will have to coordinate with other FPV fliers.

since you can only fly winged fpv from the heavy iron area, and helo fpv from the rotary wing area, I suggest you turn on you visor first.

Remember, if SHOULD loose video because someone else turns on, that is why you have to have two spotters one to tell you where you are (so you can take off the visor and fly normally) and the other to watch the traffic.
Sep 08, 2014, 10:12 AM
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cbr600f2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hunt

Remember, if SHOULD loose video because someone else turns on, that is why you have to have two spotters one to tell you where you are (so you can take off the visor and fly normally) and the other to watch the traffic.
So Tom, what about flying rotorcraft in complete line of site but also having a monitor on the transmitrer (only using for occasinally glancing at it to frame pics/video). Is that also limted to having two spotters ? is it restricted to certain areas of the flight line ? Is there any value to having some footage of the enitre event both from within in the flight line area and from outside the offical flight area ?

Just curious...
Sep 10, 2014, 05:05 PM
Multirotors are models too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hunt
no, you will have to coordinate with other FPV fliers.

since you can only fly winged fpv from the heavy iron area, and helo fpv from the rotary wing area, I suggest you turn on you visor first.

Remember, if SHOULD loose video because someone else turns on, that is why you have to have two spotters one to tell you where you are (so you can take off the visor and fly normally) and the other to watch the traffic.
Yikes, recipe for disaster
Sep 10, 2014, 05:38 PM
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Rourke's Avatar
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty105
Yikes, recipe for disaster
Sep 15, 2014, 07:33 PM
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cbr600f2's Avatar

So, Tom was right.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty105
Yikes, recipe for disaster
At first I thought having to have 2 spotters sounded excessive but after what I experienced on Friday, I have to say Tom was "spot" on with his FPV rule. I'm not posting to flame anyone but just to give a perfect example of why two spotters is a good, no GREAT idea when someone is flying true FPV (goggles).

This past Friday afternoon I was flying at the last station in the slow flyer section (farthest to the South end of field) and was about 5 mins into a flight when I heard a multi rotor start doing wild 3D about 20 feet in front of me. I thought, "wow this is one talented pilot, very skilled" I could not take my eyes off my plane for more than a second or so and each time I was just able to find the quad and check where it was. It stayed out about 20 or so feet, sometimes a bit closer and so I made sure to focus on it by sound and I told myself if it sounded like it was getting too close I would yell over to the pilot to take it back out a ways.

After about 3 or 4 mins of again, some impressive 3D maneuvers it did plop down in front of me and I assumed it had crashed but it was sitting upright. I still had another 4-5 mins of battery left and landed when my timer went off.

I walked out to get my plane and realized that this quad was still sitting there beeping and that it had been on the ground for about 5 mins after it had flown in front of me for about 4 mins. I looked around and to my surprise I WAS THE ONLY ONE ON THE FLIGHT LINE!

The guys from HobbyKing where at the fence talking so I yelled to them to see if they had been flying the quad. NOPE. We walked over to it and there it sat beeping. I picked it up and noticed Fatshark FPV gear and camera. I unplugged the main lipo lead and left the camera plugged into the balance port.

Clearly, someone's FPV quad had gotten away from them. Me and HK guys looked up and down the field and saw no one coming our way. I aimed the camera up and down the flight line thinking that if someone still had their goggles on they may see where the quad was in relation to the field.

Itís now been 15 mins or so since this thing was doing wild aerobatics right in front of me and that's when I realized what had happened and how lucky I was that this thing did not hit me. It was not expertly controlled 3D, it was completely out of control and flying wildly. I took it back to my tent and prepared to unplug the camera and was about to walk it over to the HQ tent to report a lost aircraft when one of the HK guys saw a guy walking up the fence line with goggles on the top of his head. Had to be the guy...

Sure enough it was and he reported that he was flying FPV down at the Heli section when this thing got away from him. To think it traveled the ENTIRE length of the NEAT flight line and ended up in wild gyrations in front of me and no one got injured. It was pretty amazing.

Though I'm not sure if spotters could have avoided the craft from going out of control, perhaps they would have been able to warn folks and I would not have let it sit in front of me thinking it was under total control.

BTW, sorry I am gonna flame just a little here. When I handed the craft back to the pilot, there was no thank you and no apology after hearing where and what his aircraft was doing moments earlier. We all have mishaps but a little humility goes a long way.

So Tom, I first thought why TWO spotters ??? Now I realize how good of an idea that really is. Sorry for the rant but it certainly made me think...
Sep 15, 2014, 09:08 PM
How high will it go?
antslake's Avatar
Great story but 2 spotters would not have made a difference in this case, or whether he was flying FPV or not. The flight controller went out of control sounds like, and everyone involved lost track of where it went. The flight controller has nothing to do with FPV.

I agree with you that an apology should have been in order, even if it was out of their control.

I think 2 spotters is excessive. In the case of losing FPV signal, one spotter can take control while the pilot removes the goggles and then becomes the spotter. Maybe a gap of 3 seconds without a spotter? But it's their event and they make the rules. Safety is a first concern. What I don't get is if this is purely a safety thing, why do we do a mass warbird launch? This is the second year in a row a stray plane has gone into the pits. last year hit a car, this year hit the power lines then a camper. I also witnessed a few pilots start flying "someone else's aircraft" and some pretty horrific crashes followed, one of them 10ft from me.

I don't fly FPV yet, and I love seeing the mass warbird launch. So my thoughts are unbiased.

I love Tom and the NEAT fair and I mean no disrespect, just my humble opinion.
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Sep 16, 2014, 08:14 AM
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Tom Hunt's Avatar
You are missing a very important point about "spotters". and it clearly says it on the posted rules on the flightline.

THE SPOTTER is to watch ALL the other traffic, not the guy he is spotting for. If the plane gets out of visual sight of the pilot, how is the spotter going to know?
Sep 16, 2014, 09:53 AM
How high will it go?
antslake's Avatar
So maybe I am confused a bit. As a spotter I watch all other traffic, and it's relationship to the person I am spotting. So at all times I know where the plane is that I am spotting for. This way I can call out "go high" or "go low" or "don't land now someone is on the field". If I didn't know where the person's plane I was spotting for is, then I am just watching planes.
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Sep 16, 2014, 10:57 AM
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Tom Hunt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by antslake
So maybe I am confused a bit. As a spotter I watch all other traffic, and it's relationship to the person I am spotting. So at all times I know where the plane is that I am spotting for. This way I can call out "go high" or "go low" or "don't land now someone is on the field". If I didn't know where the person's plane I was spotting for is, then I am just watching planes.
You have to be "aware" of where your pilot is, but not watching him directly. It does you no good to be watching him all the time and not seeing where the other traffic is... also... the job of the spotter (as you say) is to watch for people moving out onto the active.

I know from personally experience (40+ years of flying mind you).... especially if a model is quite far away, if you look away from that model even for an instant, it is very hard to reacquire it. You don 't have time if the pilot says "I lost video!" where am I? The model will be in the pits or the woods (better) before you get back to looking for him!

If you have eyes in the back, side, and top of your head and can separate all that sensory input, you are a much better man than I!
Sep 16, 2014, 11:28 AM
How high will it go?
antslake's Avatar
Makes sense. Not everyones ability to keep track is the same either. Error on the side of caution is a good thing.

I raced 1/12 on road back in the 80s and 90s sponsored and purposely taught myself to use peripheral vision to track crashed drivers ahead of me. It migrated over to flying. Also years of astronomy taught me to use "averted" vision which helps too.

I have to agree then 2 spotters is a good idea.
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