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Aug 12, 2014, 12:56 PM
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Panasonic NCR-18650 cells in RC


So there is a lot of discussion about the use of Panasonic NCR-18650 type Lithium Ion cells in the RC hobbies, certainly in part driven by their high energy density.

I decided to open this new thread as a central place to discuss the cells themselves, construction of battery packs from them and anything else about the topic.
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Aug 12, 2014, 01:00 PM
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I will start off by sharing a specification table about NCR-18650B and NCR-18650PF type cells and packs I derived from manufacturer (see second sheet) and partly retail (C ratings only) information.

The tables may be useful for hobbyists seeking to build their own NCR-18650 based battery packs and try to figure the best cell type and configuration (e.g. 4S3P).
They may be expanded by adding additional cell types.

edit 08/13/2014 : table reformatted and expanded by NCR-18650BD

The following two website provide excellent information on the performance of Lithium Ion cells. Discharge curves for individual cells at various discharge currents can be plotted. This allows for determining the usable capacity of a certain cell type and to compare the discharge characteristics of various cells.

http://www.dampfakkus.de (in German)

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batterie...comparator.php (contains data from Lion discharges at 10 A loads)
Last edited by Jack_LaLanne; May 18, 2015 at 11:52 AM.
Aug 12, 2014, 01:53 PM
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Very interesting Jack -
Are you planning to build a pack and report your results using these cells?
Aug 12, 2014, 02:01 PM
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Check EndofDays multicopter records using a 4s4p cluster of such cells, more than one year ago.
Aug 12, 2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greedyg76
Very interesting Jack -
Are you planning to build a pack and report your results using these cells?
I'm currently checking the feasibility of throwing one into a FlyFly Hobby ASW28. If I will, I will document the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
Check EndofDays multicopter records using a 4s4p cluster of such cells, more than one year ago.
Do you have a link to information on it?

Here is a thread about a long duration foamie flight powered by an NCR-18650B 4S7P pack

Edit:
And here's the multirotor record
Last edited by Jack_LaLanne; Aug 12, 2014 at 02:13 PM.
Aug 12, 2014, 02:17 PM
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It would be nice to collect some known trustworthy retail links, maybe from those who have pack building experience already.
Aug 13, 2014, 04:52 AM
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i think this company is trustworthy geman

http://lupine.de/deu/produkte/akkus/...chnische_daten

it's for high-discharge premium lights but you could use it for RC toys no problem
Aug 13, 2014, 04:57 AM
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They use the same Panasonic cells inside, so what could be more trustworthy ... than what ?
German "labeling" is expensive and don't guarantee you the manufacture is really German. The chances to be assembled in China is 50%
Aug 13, 2014, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoboy
i think this company is trustworthy geman
that's a nice website but the price per cell is a bit on the expensive site, considering that there are also shops charging 8-10$/cell.
Aug 13, 2014, 06:23 AM
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table updated with the BD cell
Aug 13, 2014, 06:43 AM
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richos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_LaLanne
So there is a lot of discussion about the use of Panasonic NCR-18650 type Lithium Ion cells in the RC hobbies, certainly in part driven by their high energy density.

I decided to open this new thread as a central place to discuss the cells themselves, construction of battery packs from them and anything else about the topic.
Have you seen this yet Jack

The NCR18650B: A Lithium Ion battery with a ton of promise! People say it has twice the energy per gram as LiPos... but is this true?

Check the youtube videos out here..

Episode 144 - NCR18650B The Future of RC Batteries? (8 min 10 sec)


Episode 146 - NCR18650B Test Flight (6 min 28 sec)
Aug 13, 2014, 07:34 AM
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Not quite twice, 260 vs 150 the average...180 the best lipos. Unit is WattHour/kg

The issue is the current capacity, or internal resistance, whatever is best for you. It is not able to deliver more than 5-10A per cell, with current technologies.
Aug 13, 2014, 07:43 AM
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The guy in those videos, richos posted, is emphasizing the most important bit, amperage. Since the Li Ion NCR-18650 type cells have a very low C rating (2-3.6 it seems) as opposed to LiPo cells, the power consumption of your model is the critical factor.

If your fixed wing or multirotor has low power consumption, it will be easy to migrate to an NCR-18650 type pack. With a higher amp draw, you will need to wire a sufficient amount of cells in parallel, yielding a high total cell count depending on the required voltage (number of serial cells) and therefore a high minimum weight of deployable pack.

basically what renatoa said.
Aug 13, 2014, 07:46 AM
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Here's the problems I see. First and foremost Panasonic explicitly states they have no desire to sell individual cells to anyone. Thus they are just about as tough to come by as real A123 cells (if not worse). Secondly only 0.5C charging rate? No thanks.
Aug 13, 2014, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimbeaver
Here's the problems I see. First and foremost Panasonic explicitly states they have no desire to sell individual cells to anyone. Thus they are just about as tough to come by as real A123 cells (if not worse). Secondly only 0.5C charging rate? No thanks.
That's two interesting points.
I wasn't aware of the low charge rating and just checked the marketing datasheet for first handed information. This is discussing the original NCR-18650 without a suffix (see attached). Panasonic states to charge these cells at

0.66 C = 1.925 A / 2.9 Ah .


Regarding the availability of single cells, maybe in the future retail battery packs e.g. for tools could become a reliable source.
I agree that it is not most convenient to import single cells from ali express and the like, which is why I motivate to share known tested sources.


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