Joysway Force2 60 RC Catamaran - Page 2 - RC Groups
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Aug 01, 2014, 02:27 PM
DF65/No Excuses, Just Sailing!
Windward RC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieSchooner
One's on its way to Calgary AB Canada. I shall use it to hunt down the two Dragon Force 65's floating in our waters....
Lol

He shall call it Dragon Slayer... until he has to tack
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Aug 01, 2014, 04:24 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Number One: Might want to go back and take a look at the DF65 thread - and it's long list of "squabbles" about rules and replacement parts as a starter, like the flack over the replacement of the wood radio gear tray, which (in my mind) had nothing what-so-ever to do with "performance" enhancements - but ability to use aftermarket sails which seems to be something that could affect performance. There are others.

Number Two: is that anyone wanting a boat of "one design" that is managed and built to a profit margin of a large company would be kind of "irritated" if the large company decides profits/sales aren't enough to support on-going production. Cases in point, although some might be making a return - Kyosho, Seawind, Robbe, ODOM (for a while), Nirvana (for a while), Fairwind (for a while), Micro Magic (for a while) and a few others that struggle to find new financing to keep the production going in spite of lower sales figures.

Aug 01, 2014, 05:16 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
It is unfortunate that this segment of RC models is so vunaerable to the many moods swings in economy. I am saddened by the hot and cold nature of the RC sailboat market.

I am sure there are many RC sailors that are happy to see the return of the Seawind and the Nirvana (any day now) and to see the success the DF 65.

I understand Dick's points, but don't mind "one design" classes. It is a pain when someone wants to get into a club that races one of the discontiued models and can't find one. With perserverence one can usually hunt one down. I have hunted for serveral discontinued boats and in time succeeded. Just sayin.... all is not always lost for those determined to find a discontinued boat.

It is clear to me that the price point of the DF 65's is a strong driver of the sales of these boats. Perhaps the $189.00 price tag on their new Cat will drive the sales for this new boat as well? Time will tell.

To me the video of the proto-type is impressive. I have been toying with the idea of getting a CAT, but having a dozen RC sailboats, wasn't ready to fork out the bucks for a HP cat. The price tag for the Joysway CAT has me ready to pull the trigger to get one. If it sails as well as the proto-type, it would be well worth it to me.

Boomer
Aug 01, 2014, 05:24 PM
Registered User
Well I don't own a cat but for the price I wouldn't mind getting one of these, but I will wait for the more experienced to chime in with reviews and videos of the actual production release.

One designs can be fun, but I get the point Dick is making.
Aug 01, 2014, 05:38 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L.
Number One: Might want to go back and take a look at the DF65 thread - and it's long list of "squabbles" about rules and replacement parts as a starter, like the flack over the replacement of the wood radio gear tray, which (in my mind) had nothing what-so-ever to do with "performance" enhancements - but ability to use aftermarket sails which seems to be something that could affect performance. There are others.

Number Two: is that anyone wanting a boat of "one design" that is managed and built to a profit margin of a large company would be kind of "irritated" if the large company decides profits/sales aren't enough to support on-going production. Cases in point, although some might be making a return - Kyosho, Seawind, Robbe, ODOM (for a while), Nirvana (for a while), Fairwind (for a while), Micro Magic (for a while) and a few others that struggle to find new financing to keep the production going in spite of lower sales figures.

Squabbles is life on the Internet (keyboard courage), but there are squabbles in probably 90% of RC sailboat classes. The Thread about the DF was kind of funny actually because many of the people making the most ugliest of noise don't have one and and just seem to enjoy being adversarial to the people that were supporting the new class. Strange, and kind of sad.

One design and development (check the Marblehead thread) always have differing opinions, but in the new world of social media they are quite public.

Are there any one-design classes that are not dependent on a manufacture keeping the class alive or making changes. Victoria changed bulb material and the most popular one-design class in the USA had the misfortune of having the founder of the class pass away and there seems to be constant concern that his family will continue, so far so good though. I could go on but one-design means 'mass' production, small mass but 'mass' non the less. And you pointed out a bunch of others.



Back to the catamaran, which looks like a fun boat....and once again very reasonably priced.
Aug 01, 2014, 07:31 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
@Boomer
Your comments are well thought and presented. Based on your list of owned (or used to own) boats, you definitely are NOT the normal buy-versus-build owner/sailor. Unfortunately, the industry of mass marketing will keep going until the last possible cent is extracted and then, when it is time for re-tooling, a group of finance accountants will often make the thumbs up/down on the product. As often mentioned, it would be interesting to know the thoughts that killed off the Yamaha ATW boat, and before that the crew that went with it. In a different thread, a poster noted he elected to buy a boat sailed by a local club, only to find out the club had recently changed their entry level boat to a different design. Not his fault, not the clubs fault - but an example of when new sailors go looking for compliance with our oft offered strategy ----- "sail what they sail locally".

Unlike you Boomer, I think the average new guy, who is not a builder won't take the amount of time to find an older or outdated design. If it isn't on the shelf, it won't be of much interest in a very short period of time. Also, the very inexpensive DF series won't help the other classes that cost more. New buyers will be conditioned to look only at price, and some of the older boats, still serviceable, will be overlooked simply because of cost in many instances. What used to be a good deal at $400 - $600 is now far outweighed by a boat less than $200, and as more purchase, I think a lot of classes may join the Marblehead trying to bring older designs back on the water. Just a personal observation.

BTW - I did pull the trigger on this one, and want to get a close look "in hand". Will keep it if I like it - but it (probably) won't stay stock for long. Hopefully it's performance and handling won't be so bad that multihulls on the whole get a bad rap.
Aug 01, 2014, 08:07 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Dick
I will look forward to your observations once you've had time to do some testing and tweaking.
I can hold off until you have done some evaluations on yours. I am conversent on the CAT's that go fast (to some degree)but as I've said before, I look to you and others that have some experience with these very niffty wind powered versions

Boomer
Aug 01, 2014, 10:09 PM
DF65/No Excuses, Just Sailing!
Windward RC's Avatar
It sure looks like a fun boat to me... I may be tinkering with the side stabilizers to see if I can get that sucker to foil

Its interesting, I would think a swing rig would be easier to sail on a cat, but then again maybe the ability to dump off air fast to prevent a capsize in a conventional rig is neccessary...

I also cant wait to race it against some of the Rg65s in our group... giving up pointing and easy tacking for pure top end speed.
Hypothetically the cat should win.... the big rollers at White Rock may be tough to navigate in a Cat

It will be fun to play with this boat
Aug 01, 2014, 10:11 PM
Registered User
And back to the cat we go........
Aug 01, 2014, 10:22 PM
DF65/No Excuses, Just Sailing!
Windward RC's Avatar
Should I.... ? It's so hard to resist....

Nope Ill take a pass on this one This is the Joysway Cat thread not the DF65 thread... I answered over there, 2 clicks away


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L.
Number One: Might want to go back and take a look at the DF65 thread - and it's long list of "squabbles" about rules and replacement parts as a starter, like the flack over the replacement of the wood radio gear tray, which (in my mind) had nothing what-so-ever to do with "performance" enhancements - but ability to use aftermarket sails which seems to be something that could affect performance. There are others.

Number Two: is that anyone wanting a boat of "one design" that is managed and built to a profit margin of a large company would be kind of "irritated" if the large company decides profits/sales aren't enough to support on-going production. Cases in point, although some might be making a return - Kyosho, Seawind, Robbe, ODOM (for a while), Nirvana (for a while), Fairwind (for a while), Micro Magic (for a while) and a few others that struggle to find new financing to keep the production going in spite of lower sales figures.

Last edited by Windward RC; Aug 01, 2014 at 11:04 PM.
Aug 02, 2014, 02:49 PM
The wind is free, go sailing!
Scratchy101's Avatar
I was going to pull the trigger on this one, but $60 shipping to Canada?
So much for free shipping....
Aug 02, 2014, 03:31 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratchy101
I was going to pull the trigger on this one, but $60 shipping to Canada?
So much for free shipping....
Might be free to the USA and have a friend/family ship it to you via post office for a lot less
Aug 02, 2014, 04:00 PM
Registered User
Nobody seems to want to talk about the big issue with r/c cats. They flip over and or pitch pole on a regular basis and you have to go get them. Has Joysway solved this problem?
Aug 02, 2014, 04:04 PM
DF65/No Excuses, Just Sailing!
Windward RC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Corbett
Nobody seems to want to talk about the big issue with r/c cats. They flip over and or pitch pole on a regular basis and you have to go get them. Has Joysway solved this problem?
I think the only way to avoid that is to use a trimaran Tom. I dont think Joysway has any magical formula for this... its physics...

Racing Catamarans will be a little more high maintenance, and will probably require a lot rescues. I dont see how you can avoid it really...

I guess if you are racing them, one of the calculations you will have to make if racing them is how much you want to crank your speed up versus staying in control...

This happens on power boats and cars in nearly every race... kind of a different mindset for the RC sailing skipper
Last edited by Windward RC; Aug 02, 2014 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Added another thought
Aug 02, 2014, 04:05 PM
DF65/No Excuses, Just Sailing!
Windward RC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratchy101
I was going to pull the trigger on this one, but $60 shipping to Canada?
So much for free shipping....
really? yeah thats a lot...


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