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Apr 17, 2004, 08:11 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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are we there yet? (3djets) microFan and Vasa55


Hi Folks,
I starting this on the fly so forgive the spelling etc.

Last summer I started fly again after many years laying off (just cause I was board with it). What brought me back was finding Tim Harts 3d foamy site and seeing what the new electric flight stuff could do. The last time I tryed flying electric was 1976... nicads, a car reostat....yea it sucked. Man have things changed.
Well to make a long story short it didn't take long to go from flying 3D brushless to messing with the EDF's. Best of all RC Groups is full of information and peoples experiance. Thanks to all of you who share information.

With that thought in mind I'm going to share some "nice" setups for the micro fan and Vasa55 and do a simple build thread of the profile jet I've been working. (I'm up to the 9th ver) My goal is to fly a 3D edf, to do that the first thing you need is power.... and alot of it. Thats where these setup came from. The second thing you need is a light, responcive airframe.... the third thing you need is control, air on the surfaces or a close approximation.... You all know most jets are built for speed so control surfaces are designed with that in mind....normally surfaces are in clean air not in the jet wash. Quite the delemia.... I want a jet that can fly 3d. I got the power, I have a light airframe, but I have to have some control....

You'll see in the two "early" videos what I did to try an make it work. The two other videos are of ver 6 and 7. with even more power. (really, I built these two (6&7) just to fly the power setups and test them out) At full power in level flight the planes twists big time. I think I'm prety close to haveing control but, you decide.

The setup for the micro Fan is:
RZ2500, CC25, 5s, Tanic 1500's There are some things you have to know to use this setup... things I found out the hard way so don't run off yet. It is a very good balance of power and weight. Thurst is above 500grams and nothing is hot when your done flying.

Ok Thoughts??

Joe

Here a picture of V7
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Apr 17, 2004, 08:14 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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The links for the video's will be up shortly.
joe
Apr 17, 2004, 08:47 PM
Electric Flyz
mixer911's Avatar
Here are the links to Wireit's videos.

Video 1 Version 4

Video 2 Version 4.2

Video 3 version 6 lands version 7 takes off

video 4 version 6
Apr 17, 2004, 08:59 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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Thanks Mixer911
I owe ya.
Joe
Apr 17, 2004, 09:02 PM
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Kevin Cox's Avatar
Awesome work. I would really like to see the bottom of your model (fan setup).

Thanks for sharing it.
Apr 17, 2004, 09:07 PM
Flying Fatboy
Gordito Volador's Avatar
Joe,

That plane rocks! Congratulations man, obviously you have been putting some effort into this project.

Bill
Apr 17, 2004, 09:23 PM
From what I can tell of the Video's it looks like your version 4.2 produced the best results, I think you just need to concentrate on your flying style, and it will come to you!
I'd concentrate on low and slow, precise turns, tight loops, tail slides, you might even get to the point of hovering in no wind conditions

Congratulations!!!
Apr 17, 2004, 09:43 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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More on the setup


First off when ya use this setup (and you will) ya have to use a heat sink, after all your moving 280watts + thru a system and the heat that does get created has to be pulled out.... so use a heat sink! I can fly 10min with this setup and the motors 98~100F when It comes down. (see pic).

Second the controller, 1. put it in the airstream to keep it cool. 2. Keep the battery to controller wires as short as pos. I had 11" battery wires on an early setup and I was getting some spikes and shuting the controller down. 3. use at least 16 gauge wire and ultras, this also helps the controller not see spikes......I've been running 5s and 6s setup for several months.... nothing burnt up yet... I have had some bumps in the road but this setup works.

Batteries... 10C 1500 Tanic's are what I use and they are the one thing that makes this level of performance attainable. You can use whatever batteries you like but anything else is either more weight or not enough volts under load to do the job.(compair it yourself) I use the 1500's because this setup draws 16.5 amps full out. The batteries are rated for 15 amps con. All the flying I've done on these and they never come down hotter than 110F. I hold the power full all I want ...no TM.

Inlet ring and Exit tube, I found a rather large, smooth inlet ups thrust at static (see pic) nicely.. When I built V6 and 7 I used a exit tube, lost a little thrust ... gained speed... to the point of twisting.... and some. 85mm long and 48mm at exit. Light Epoxy Glass/CB wrap

Receiver battery. at 5 and 6s theres no BEC so I use a 4cell 350 ma nimh pack good for an hour flying.

In the one later Video I show a tach on the motor at 55+k rpm that reading was taken after flying for 5mins.

Joe
Last edited by wireit; Apr 22, 2004 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Left a few words out
Apr 17, 2004, 10:03 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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Thanks All,
Theres more to come. The early vids were with an old vidcam... sorry about the quality. Thanks too for the advice.. I fly 3d fairly well.... doing it with an edf...thats a trick. The v6 and v7 vids were shot just having fun...playing really, v6 AUW was 15oz v7 was 15.5. The wing area is about 440... so loading is light but for 3d it needs to be even lighter AUW 12oz or less. V4~4.2 was 12.oz with 1.4:1 thrust to wt.

joe
Apr 17, 2004, 10:08 PM
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dave morris's Avatar
I can vouch for what Joe is saying, you want easy hand launch, don't even have to think about it, wind direction, who cares, just grab it and basicly let go. I can also tell you the razor 5s micro fan will find a home in my micro bandit, it absolutly screamed for mercy. I loved seeing the tight outside loops and stall turns. the vectored thrust was truly cool, gets around all that airflow of the control surface problems that most jets suffer as they try to get slow. Great work Joe.

Dave
Apr 17, 2004, 10:26 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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Thanks Dave,
I flew at R/C world today, nice place... windy as ..... well you know windy.
Flew 3 flights, lots of good people, nice "paved runway". Someday I would like to land "my" super bandit with retracts there..... pm me when you get the chance

joe
Apr 17, 2004, 11:17 PM
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wireit's Avatar
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Vasa 55 and V8


Hi all,
This is the vasa 55 setup and V8 good for 650 grams of thrust. The motor I use your not going to beleive...... so get a grip.

Vasa55, Hacker B20-26L, CC25 or 35, 6s 1500 Tanics. Full amp draw is 15.5~16, around 41000 rpm. If you check around and add things up this setup and the microFan RZ2500 are the lightest you'll find with this kind of thrust.

Same requirements as with the other setup. Heat sink, no long battery side wires, cooling to the controller etc etc.

One word of caution is in order at this point. You know what happens when you run a gws 300 motor on 3s lipo's and hammer it.......fry's up real crisp right. I don't want to leave the impression with anyone that you can just go out an pop 4,5 or 6s on any motor and get kick butt performance..... 19 time out of 20 you'll get the fried 300. toasted controller and weird looking fat batteries.

It took me a month with my head "in" motorcalc just to get the realtionships I was looking for figured out (good thing I'm not married). Even longer to find motors. BTW Motorcalc is good but these setups are not correctly modeled in it. (it's software, and a growing work in progress one day maybe) Of course putting in weird setups like these dosn't help

Anyway, The point of all this is to put more watts into these micro and vasa powered planes and less wt. I know the common 150+watt setup in the past for a micro or vasa was razors and hackers running 3s, these really required 3s2p or a lot of TM. If you pushed past 200 watts 3s 2p is a must and heres where the problem comes in. Weight 3s 2p (6 cells)requires heavey batteries to manage the amp load. With the 6s, same motor load the amps go down, heat gos down and the weight of the smaller (less ah) batteries. lightens the plane, improving performance. A lighter normally flys better.... You Know this post is getting too long...

joe
Apr 17, 2004, 11:24 PM
Registered User
Thomas Nelson's Avatar
Lots of boys over in the High Performance forum are really pushing their RZ2500's in Stingers and the like ... so I thought I'd ask for some numbers. I was thinking 150 watts or so. Funny, but not a single reply. Now I know that little gem is good for 280 watts!

Actually, it's too bad I didn't have this sooner. I ended up settling on a much heavier MF480 & Mega /2 for my fanfold F-16, pulling between 300 & 400 watts.

I imagine you'll elaborate on your heat sink in due time; I am really interested in where to get one.

Good stuff Joe!
Apr 17, 2004, 11:37 PM
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wireit's Avatar
Thread OP

more setups


I guess should mention some stuff on other setups, some of this is from memmory so nobody shoot me if I mess something up....

Rz2500 watage 400 fan... 4s 2200 Tanic about 21 amps lotts of thrust but too weighty for my stuff. (also the load limit for the RZ2500) It likes the lighter load of the Micro Fan
RZ2500 in a micro fan, 3s 1100 tanics 39000 rpm 11amps (not enough rpm) same setup 4s 12.5 amps 47000 not bad thrust (I think over 400 grams) Very light weight for the power out.

B20 26L 5s Tanic 850's (someTM) Mini fan rotor cut down to 64mm in a GWS 64 fan housing(lighter) Lotts of thrust 11.5 amps about 425 grams thrust V4 power setup.
B20 26L 5s MiniFan 1100 Tanics 525 grams Thurst, around 13 amps (light)
B20 26L 6s 1500 Tanics Mini cut down to 66mm to fit wattage over 700 grams thrust, 16 amps, figured close to 330 watts (but still light)
This setup is new and not been flown..... but it has posabilities......

joe
Last edited by wireit; Apr 19, 2004 at 10:25 PM. Reason: I missed the fan type in one of the setups
Apr 17, 2004, 11:39 PM
almost 24 oz. of thrust, truly amazing!!!!!!! I hope you wear safety glasses when your around that fan at full speed sheesh 41K rpm's amazing BTW where can a person buy one of those RPM meters ?
Last edited by RCParkflyer; Apr 17, 2004 at 11:45 PM.


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