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Apr 05, 2004, 01:16 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
Thread OP
Cool

Throttle Jockey on Joker is GREAT


I just got back from getting one flight with my Joker using a Throttle Jockey governor from Model Avionics.

I knew it would work when I bench tested it yesterday but I had no idea how well.

Spool up is nice and smooth as usual for most Jokers. Switch into Idle up 1 or 2 and right at the desired HS it LOCKS. No overspeeding on descents, with what seems like less bogging than before ( I haven't flown this heli in months ). I can only describe the improvement in feel to be like going to much faster servos. The feel and response to collective inputs is MUCH crisper. It seems like the motor is ahead of the collective stick rather than reacting to current demand. I think I know now why Alan Szabo's 90 Raptor has got the fastest response I have ever seen a heli exhibit. 1 is those Airtronics Digis he uses and the other is the TJ pro.

The neat thing here is our ESC work at light speed.

Todays flight was short 1 pack of 32 cell 1700s. But I was overwhelmed the first time I hammered the the collective and it was in Idle 1. I don't know what speeds the head was going my guess is in the 1800s in idle 2. No one else was at the field. our weather sucks right now.

Now all that this setup needs is a CSM gyro and it will be even more awsome.

Joker CX
Actro 24-4
25T pinion
32 RC1700s
Throttle Jockey Pro with Opto Sensor
Actronic 70-32 ESC

Al
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Apr 05, 2004, 01:19 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
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another look
Apr 05, 2004, 01:24 PM
Registered User
Sounds great Albig.

So what did you do? Mount the IC version of the throttle jockey to the joker, meaning using a the sensor to pick up the main gear rpms, then run the ESC lead into the TJ to control it?

Like running a "seperate" GOV on an ESC set to GOV off?

OR is this product a new ESC that is just named throttle jockey?

Just wondering...

__________
Best regards,

Ron Osinski
aka - GMRO
Apr 05, 2004, 01:37 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
Thread OP
Ron, it's a IC TJ Pro and the small piece of reflective aluminum on the motors case is the opto sensor reflector.

I just have the ESC plugged in where the IC Servo would be and use back up TCs. The HS is set from your governor function in the radio.

The HS for the first time with any electric I have ever set up is exactly correlated to the percentage of governor you set.

IE: at 100% TC and 100% governor produce exactly the same HS.
So does 90 & 90 and so on. Also then resolution is the best I have ever seen. Crank the Gov back a couple of percentage points and the HS dials down a very slight bit. It does this all the way throught 0 to 100%. Really cool.

once these things are integrated with the new CSM gyros it's going to be the best governor available for electric or IC.

Of course it will have some problems with can motor's, but thats easy to fix. Run outrunners

Al
Apr 05, 2004, 01:55 PM
Our Daddy and Heli Junkie
Fred Bronk's Avatar
So basically we can run ANY ESC with the TJ and have a solid gov?

Couldn't it be used on the main gear? If it reads RPM does it matter where it comes from?
Apr 05, 2004, 02:13 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
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Fred,

I think you may have hit on the solution for regular can motors.

The TJ has a limited RPM range it can govern. I believe it's between about 9500 and 23,000 RPM. The way they slow it down for 4 stroke or gas operation is to add more magnets to trick the TJ into thinking the RPMs are higher. Or in our situation we could figure out how many reflectors it would take on the main gear. Probably about 6 would work to maintain around 2000 RPM.

For that matter magnets would work on the main gear. But it would be easier to print out some stickers that go on the gear with appropriately spaced reflectors.

Yeah any ESC that has slow start could be run through the TJ on a Heli for what feels to me like what is going to be the best governor availble for any heli.

I'm really surprised at the improvement in resolution between the TJ and my 9C.

Paul Beard is interested in this also so if this goes over well it may be possible to work out any problems or issues. He is great with tech support and very reponsive to our needs. And he stands fully behind his products almost to a fault.

Al
Apr 05, 2004, 02:33 PM
Our Daddy and Heli Junkie
Fred Bronk's Avatar
We may not even need a slow start though if we can ramp up via the radio and %. A soft atart would be nice unless we spin the head though.
Apr 05, 2004, 02:51 PM
Registered User
Al,

Excellent piece of lateral thinking.

Does that mean you have dispensed with the V3

nigel
Apr 05, 2004, 03:13 PM
Registered User
rcman's Avatar
Al that a great idea
So what did you set your Motor speed at
Does is work better then the V3
Man I would have never thought of doing that
David
Apr 05, 2004, 03:38 PM
Registered User
Does the TJ connect to the pitch channel as well?

If so, then we can accomplish the same effect on an ESC by having an extra input (on a Y cable) to monitor the pitch channel. When the pitch increases, the ESC can preemptively switch to hard timing before the blades change pitch.

Toshi
Apr 05, 2004, 03:50 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
Thread OP
Nigel,

One flight doesn't mean that I'm going to do away with my V3

I'll certainly fly it some more before I can say that unequivically.
But it's sure looks that way to me.

The TJ has an Aux plug that will be able to interface with a CSM gyro, and that will even make this more attractive.

David, this governor has what Paul calls feed-forward loop technology. I don't understand it yet but it seems like the motor is ahead of large collective inputs.

It really feels like I put some super fast digis in it.

Ben74 asked the question in another thread what would a good governor work like and I thought having played with a TJ on my glow machine. "like a Throttle Jockey does". They do work great on IC helis also. People are actually running 9253s for their throttles with them and seeing a noticeable improvement.

With an ESC, inputs are instantaneously relayed to the motor for even better response.

The V3 is a good governor but I don't think it's as good as this one. Immediately it was evident something was different for the better.

Al
Apr 05, 2004, 03:57 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
Thread OP
Toshi,

It works by sensing speed not current nor does it have the ability at present to interface with the pitch channel. I'm sure throttle input is part of the calculation as well. In extreme demand situations the governor underdamps the application of throttle. In small aplications it it overdamps the throttle making small inputs smoother.

REALLY COOL Tech.

Al
Apr 05, 2004, 04:11 PM
Registered User
rcman's Avatar
Al thanks for replying
Please keep us posted on you findings
I am very intrested in this "REALLY COOL Tech"
David
Apr 05, 2004, 04:33 PM
Registered User
Ben74's Avatar
great report, al! i'm going to have to pick one of those up. paul beard is also the guy who is about to bring 2.4ghz RC radios to market. apparently, he is a sharp guy

one thought - what happens if that sticker comes off your motor in flight? will the TJ shut the motor down, or hold the last throttle position?
Apr 05, 2004, 04:45 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
Thread OP
Ben,

You just set up a throttle curve on all your flight modes. if the tape was to come off the TJ will hand the ESC directly back to your TCs.

Just set Normal to 0 25 50 75 100 for arming and start up, and your idle ups to a V curve your happy with.

Al


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