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Feb 13, 2018, 07:44 AM
608 km/h!
josh18's Avatar
The shape of the wing looks great! I bet you're impressed to finally see it in the flesh.
I've had no luck with releases using acrylic grey primer like it looks like you have. It almost always splits like that to some degree and leaves the rest in the mould. It seems to be just so 'chaulky' and cant take the force of release. I use TR108 with acrylic rattle can paint but no primer and the release is excellent, because the paint chemically bonds with the epoxy somehow. My mould is pretty seasoned mind you but release out of the Synergy mould went pretty well and that was new corian too.
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Feb 13, 2018, 01:22 PM
Remember... Fly for fun!
ALEX HEWSON's Avatar
This is the new release system we will be using that is apparently the same as the freewax. The 75ez

http://www.adhesivetechnologies.co.n...Agents/mobile/
Feb 13, 2018, 02:06 PM
Auzzie built planks
timbuck's Avatar
Wing looks great other than the stick up issue. It will be perfect for a maiden Ds thrasher.
One thing to note with wax aspecialy on acrylic surfaces like corian is it's easy to peel off the wax when you apply it. It doesn't hold to corian well. once you get past 6 or 7 coats the wax becomes a thin layer and depending on the cloth your using and how heavy handed you are wiping off it will peel up. Leaving it longer than an 1hr depending on temp/humidity between coats makes the surface very crusty and dry and In turn almost always causes you to remove and peel up the wax instead of just taking the dry "top surface " of the wax its self.

Chemlease make very good products have done for many years now and I will never change back from semi perminate.

I use the 15 ES sealer with the R&B Ez.
I don't know anything about the 75 , just check there application as some of there products are for specific surfaces and don't work well some. The R & B is a bit of an all rounder and will work with almost every mould type we use... Chemlease them selves guided my into using the R&B for this reason as I have multiple different moulds.

Cheers

Tim
Latest blog entry: More colours
Feb 13, 2018, 03:36 PM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh18 View Post
The shape of the wing looks great! I bet you're impressed to finally see it in the flesh.
I've had no luck with releases using acrylic grey primer like it looks like you have. It almost always splits like that to some degree and leaves the rest in the mould. It seems to be just so 'chaulky' and cant take the force of release. I use TR108 with acrylic rattle can paint but no primer and the release is excellent, because the paint chemically bonds with the epoxy somehow. My mould is pretty seasoned mind you but release out of the Synergy mould went pretty well and that was new corian too.
Yer, the shape of it looks fantastic, Joe W did a great job!

There was no grey primer, that is what is left of the white paint which has split. I backed the flouro colours with white paint to help them 'pop' but that white paint seems to be the one colour which has given the biggest head-aches.

The flouros have peeled off clean(er), but the white paint under them has split/torn leaving the flouros to flake off. the clear coat seems to have released the best (not perfect either).

I too have used those same paints with TR108 and had good results. So im a little at a loss to pinpoint what happened.
Feb 13, 2018, 03:41 PM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by timbuck View Post
Wing looks great other than the stick up issue. It will be perfect for a maiden Ds thrasher.
One thing to note with wax aspecialy on acrylic surfaces like corian is it's easy to peel off the wax when you apply it. It doesn't hold to corian well. once you get past 6 or 7 coats the wax becomes a thin layer and depending on the cloth your using and how heavy handed you are wiping off it will peel up. Leaving it longer than an 1hr depending on temp/humidity between coats makes the surface very crusty and dry and In turn almost always causes you to remove and peel up the wax instead of just taking the dry "top surface " of the wax its self.

Chemlease make very good products have done for many years now and I will never change back from semi perminate.

I use the 15 ES sealer with the R&B Ez.
I don't know anything about the 75 , just check there application as some of there products are for specific surfaces and don't work well some. The R & B is a bit of an all rounder and will work with almost every mould type we use... Chemlease them selves guided my into using the R&B for this reason as I have multiple different moulds.

Cheers

Tim
Thanks Tim. The funny thing is i re-waxed the flanges just prior (an hour earlier or so) to the final joining and after splitting any epoxy on the flanges just fell off without issue. The flanges arent as highly polished (so maybe they 'grip' the wax better whereas the highly polished corian lets the wax slip off???)

I think the paint, or the way i applied it, has a big part to play in this too. I probably should have done more lighter (dusting) coats than fewer heavier coats.

Im keen to try a semi-permanent system like the chemlease.
Feb 13, 2018, 05:49 PM
Auzzie built planks
timbuck's Avatar
Yes. I agree and have similar results on area's that are not as highly polished. I think " grip" as you say has a lot to do with it. Surface porosity has rounded edges , where as fine scratches are rough and definatly makes a big difference in how waxes stick to it.
Yeah once you go semi's you start to question why we ever use wax hahaa. But then it opens up another can as the paint falls out of the moulds before you lay up. I've have big issues with this lately.

Cheers

Tim
Latest blog entry: More colours
Feb 13, 2018, 07:35 PM
Remember... Fly for fun!
ALEX HEWSON's Avatar
Our temps aren't as extreme so should be ok
Feb 13, 2018, 10:11 PM
Rock Breaker
gazasmith's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEX HEWSON View Post
Our temps aren't as extreme so should be ok
Apparent temp hit 44C yesterday
Feb 13, 2018, 10:35 PM
Fun fun fun.... bang
ScottySpoon's Avatar
Ive got some 75ez on the way for testing, i spoke to the guy from adhesives tech at some length and its what he recommended it for their resin (ADR246TG) which is what i use, its the Chemlease "workhorse", it will work with basicly all mold types and resin types and is easy as to use, he said use the 15 sealer on corian or other porous material molds first or just do plenty of coats which will also work
Feb 14, 2018, 04:41 AM
608 km/h!
josh18's Avatar
Sorry Taurine, thought it looked like primer. To split the acrylic top coat it must have been a good stick up!
When I get back into this sort of thing I will be going with semi-perms too. They sound too good!
Feb 14, 2018, 04:29 PM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
Ive spoken with Pete W and he's convinced me, the best option for us at this stage is to use wax then PVA. Its cheap, works well, provides a good mechanical barrier to keep paint off the mould, very long storage life.

Well, this is what i think ill try for the next one.
Feb 15, 2018, 09:02 AM
Where is the inspiration
wdeighton's Avatar
I have never got a good finish putting pva over wax. It just fish eyes.
Let me go find them links.

https://www.alchemie.com/ancillary-p...agents/r5.html


http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/w...ase-agent.html

More recently I have been using solvent 2 pk clear coat there solvent born 1K colour. For now my releases have been very successful.

When using the easy lease you can feel when the surface is ready. It is oily to the touch.

As said the r5spray is fantastic and my go to if I have concerns about sticking due to porosity or existing micro cracks or joins in a mould surface.
Last edited by wdeighton; Feb 15, 2018 at 09:14 AM.
Feb 15, 2018, 06:17 PM
Fun fun fun.... bang
ScottySpoon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by taurineman View Post
Ive spoken with Pete W and he's convinced me, the best option for us at this stage is to use wax then PVA. Its cheap, works well, provides a good mechanical barrier to keep paint off the mould, very long storage life.

Well, this is what i think ill try for the next one.

Did you ask peter what he uses on his molds?
Feb 15, 2018, 07:59 PM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottySpoon View Post
Did you ask peter what he uses on his molds?
Hes recently gone to chemlease too. He likes it and gets good results. He said that it is expensive, has limited shelf life, and the paint can just bead and run off if you dont 'dust' it on in multiple light coats. Good for production runs etc.

So, in the interest and spirit/ethos of the PMS (Poor man's sloper), i will try the cheaper option first - which will be PVA. If i have issues with that, then we could then look at semi-perms.
Feb 17, 2018, 05:17 PM
AvB
AvB
Wind, hill, ... I'm keen ...
AvB's Avatar
Hey, pardon me if I've not read the thread thoroughly enough. Been preoccupied and haven't been keeping up lately. But with your paint stickup, I think you've missed the obvious cause ... the paint went on too thick. You mentioned that you did few thick coats rather than multiple lighter coats. I've learnt through bitter experience that with either wax or semiperms, lots of wet paint will eat through the release. It's usually a problem with light colours because your brain says it doesn't look solid enough and you spray more and more on. If you put thinned paint on heavy, then put more over the top, then more again, you basically trap the solvent thinners in the paint layer, essentially leaving paint thinners eating away at the release for hours and believe me it will stick!

If you're mixing and using a gun, it's most important that you use no thinners at all in your paint (or minimal thinners) and spray the paint in as dry as possible. So dry that it splatters on, rather than going on evenly. All you have to do is get it onto the mould Ö if it glosses up, you have too much thinners. Obviously that's not really possible with rattle cans which you canít adjust, and are quite thinners-rich.

Do your first coat so light that you can hardly see that it's gone on, and leave it for 10 mins (in our hot weather). Next coat a bit thicker, then 3rd and 4th coats thicker with about 7 mins between coats. If you do your early coats too thick, walk away and leave it for an hour or two. You want to make sure the paint is really dry. For my early fluoro efforts I put the colour and the white backing on way too thick and half a day later I could still smell the paint. Bad sign, I now know. I laid up on it and it stuck. If you can smell the thinners on your paint in the mould, leave it for another day.

Remember - gloss is for people painting top coats on a car Ö moulds are the opposite - you donít want any gloss. The mould surface gives you the gloss. You want your visible paint surface to be rough, as the epoxy will grip to it but shiny gloss paint will easily be pulled off your final product when you rip your wing joiner tape off etc!

Also, regarding the application of the Frekote semiperms Ö Alexís timing is too quick. Iíve chased up the method from a number of people (I have it in a thread somewhere). The method, for the release, and for the sealer, and for the heavy sealer is the same Ö wipe it on in a thin layer with a little square of folded T-shirt material etc. As soon as it starts to coalesce (make islands) wipe it off lightly with a dry clean cloth. Donít rub it hard. This is usually only 10 - 20 seconds or so, so it means that on a big wing, youíre often applying with one hand and wiping further back with the other hand. Set your timer and leave it for 25 mins between coats. Itís incredibly easy and convenient compared to wax. Iíve had moulds with porosity issues on which Iíve had to apply 4 coats of the B-15 heavy sealer, then 5 coats of FMS sealer, then 6 coats of Frekote 700NC release and Iíve started in the morning and painted in the arvo. Once the mould has been sealed and used once, you shouldnít need to add any more release for a while but I usually canít help myself applying one more coat (which also helps you to find any bits of gunk on the surface) and I apply a few coats to the flange because it gets lots of mechanical abrasion scraping off the paint etc each time.

Anyway Iím off to my rehab class now to learn how to write shorter posts on RC Groups.


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