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Apr 20, 2014, 06:05 PM
Registered User
Have tested the new update yesterday and today and it performs exellent. I used to have rudder creep in 2D and aileron creep in 3D but that is now completely gone. Did not test the “reset level”, find it a bit tricky with the five gestures during flight. Will test that later.
Bengt
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Apr 20, 2014, 10:41 PM
Registered User
Bhodi11's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
This is the most significant update since the Guardian was released and incorporates several changes users have been requesting. Here is a summary of changes made in the new Data Recorder (Guardian PC App) v10.60 and accompanying Guardian firmware v1.24:

General tab:
  • The 2D level settings are now displayed and are incrementally adjustable next to the AHI display.
  • A button has been added to re-zero the gyros.
  • The button to reverse the second elevon now also operates to reverse the second V-tail servo if V-tail is selected.
  • Application version number now appears at the top of the window.
2D Mode tab:
  • No changes.
3D Mode tab:
  • 3D heading-hold setting is disabled on this tab as it is now handled on the Mode Config tab.
  • Derivative gain can once again be set to zero.
Servo Config:
  • This tab now consolidates the servo limit section and the pulse frequency section.
  • Some labeling changes to make things clearer.
  • The default limits have been reduced from ±500µs to ±400µs to align with 100% travel on the most common transmitter brands and reduce the possibility of inadvertent over travel.
  • Hovering the mouse over the limit buttons now displays tool tips that explain the actions of the defaults and the custom settings.
Mode Config tab:
  • This new tab allows for the selection of modes to match each position on a 3 position or 2 position switch controlling the Guardian mode wire. Each switch position can represent 2D or 3D, with or without heading hold, or off.
At the field:
  • A "gesture" now consists of a change from any position of the mode switch to any other position and back. It doesn't matter what each position is configured to represent. For those with 3 position switches, this means only a single click in either direction and back from any starting point. will count as a gesture. For those with 2 position switches it means one position can be "off" and the gestures still work.
  • Starting from 2D mode, 5 gestures will initiate a 2D level reset without a trim reset. This can be done beyond the usual 15 sec window, which means it can be executed in flight.
  • Some adjustments were made to the 3D "sticks centered" detection to allow small stick movements to be more effective when 3D heading-hold is active.
I just downloaded the Beta but there is no "mode config tab". Where do I get this version? Thanks.
Apr 20, 2014, 11:22 PM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhodi11
I just downloaded the Beta but there is no "mode config tab". Where do I get this version? Thanks.
See post #1 in this thread.
Apr 21, 2014, 02:55 AM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Just wanted to jump in and say, thank you for putting some attention into
the 3D+HH mode dead zone problem. I have not had an opportunity to
fly the update yet, but I was reminded of this issue only a few minutes ago watching
some FPV footage from my Funjet shot a couple days ago, and remembering how scary
it is when the elevator gets "stuck" in the dead zone when it's going 70mph
a couple degrees nose down when it's only a few feet above the ground.
I very much hope this is resolved now.

I do have a comment about the level reset in the air debate.
1. You can't reset trims in the air at the same time, because you have to hold
the sticks off center to keep the plane level before you begin the gesture (whether
it's 1 cycle or 5), and you don't want to record the off center stick positions, which
will mean something very different in 3D and Off modes.

2. If you enable heading hold sub mode feature in 2D mode, then you should
only need to concentrate on the elevator before starting the gesture. With 2D+HH, even
if it's a little off level when you release the sticks, it'll sense yaw rotation, and lift
one wing until the aircraft maintains a steady course, which generally has the side effect
of bringing the wings perfectly level. Then, whether you're flying Mode 1 (A/E on right
stick) or Mode 2 (E on left, A on right), you can move *only* the elevator to get the aircraft
pitch level (while it maintains its course automatically), and then start the 5 cycle
gesture to reset level.
Apr 21, 2014, 02:57 PM
Oh...that's gonna leave a mark
capt kurt's Avatar
Hi, I tested the new update today on 2 different airplanes. Was simply awesome! Take offs in 3D are great. The plane stays perfectly stable all the way down the runway. The planes seem much more solid now. Tried the reset level in flight and turned out to be great. I just turned down the master gain and leveled on a nice slow fly by.. Have to admit... I didn't count the # of toggles tho but just keep on flicking until I thought that was at least 5. All of my landings were just greased in after that. ( note.. I fly only glow engines if anyone is wondering.) Went ahead and updated all my planes and will continue with the testing in the coming days. Have not tried the inverted installation yet but will be watching for the upgrade in the coming days.
Thanks Eagle Tree.
Kurt.
Apr 21, 2014, 08:56 PM
Guardian Stabilizer
Thread OP
Hi guys,

I'm glad to hear that overall the performance of the new firmware is a positive change!

Prof100: Thanks for the note on the UI. This should be fixed along with the inverted level trimming bug really soon here.

Daemon: Great point about using 2D Heading Hold to perform an auto-trim of your Roll axis! This has been how I have performed the Reset Level Flight in the air, myself. That way, all you need to manage is your altitude.

Thanks to everyone so far who has taken the time to test and provide feedback!
Apr 21, 2014, 09:11 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.T
Hi guys,

I'm glad to hear that overall the performance of the new firmware is a positive change!

Prof100: Thanks for the note on the UI. This should be fixed along with the inverted level trimming bug really soon here.

Daemon: Great point about using 2D Heading Hold to perform an auto-trim of your Roll axis! This has been how I have performed the Reset Level Flight in the air, myself. That way, all you need to manage is your altitude.

Thanks to everyone so far who has taken the time to test and provide feedback!
You are welcome. Now I have to go in again and back off on the direct rate on the elevator because my delta wing flips like it has thrust vectoring because I increased the elevator direct rate quite a bit. This assumes the first slider in direct rate is elevator.
Apr 21, 2014, 11:08 PM
Registered User
Bhodi11's Avatar
I tried out in 2 planes today setup for 3D + HH, Off, and 3D no HH. For the most part I was very happy especially being able to assign the modes to a 3 position switch on my DX9. One thing I experienced was lack of HH in the 3D + HH mode I set up. I primarily wanted this for hand launching which I do not excel at to say the least. I wanted to basically lock in a decent vertical attitude throttle up, toss, and let the Guardian do the heavy lifting. Problem is HH was not happening? Or maybe it was really docile. No crashes but I was expecting more. I was able to get 2D + HH to work ok. I just set level with the up attitude I wanted. First I tried it on an 800mm Mustang which will normally fly out of my hand almost no problem. It was dicey at best hands off in 2D + HH, Huge dip before it would recover at nearly the last second. I am hoping to get this sorted out for use in my Habu 2 which I will be hand launching and belly landing. It can be a bit of a handful until it gets up to speed. Any suggestions on what I may need to adjust or have set wrong? I have read the manual, and How to set up your Guardian etc..
Apr 21, 2014, 11:44 PM
An Aussie in Chicago
My 2 cents on setting reset level.

The way I think it should work, fly the plane with ETG off, trim your plane to fly straight & level as you would do normally. Then do a sequence of switches to set the level & trims. This way in 2d the plane should continue as is and 3d mods will work correctly as well as the trims have also been reset.
Apr 22, 2014, 01:19 AM
Registered User
Blaser's Avatar
One thing I did have to say the osculation was not a problem in 3d but switch to 2d and it started osculating had to turn down the gain fast. Didn't do this before. Still love everything but that
Apr 22, 2014, 02:09 AM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhodi11
I tried out in 2 planes today setup for 3D + HH, Off, and 3D no HH. For the most part I was very happy especially being able to assign the modes to a 3 position switch on my DX9. One thing I experienced was lack of HH in the 3D + HH mode I set up. I primarily wanted this for hand launching which I do not excel at to say the least. I wanted to basically lock in a decent vertical attitude throttle up, toss, and let the Guardian do the heavy lifting. Problem is HH was not happening? Or maybe it was really docile. ....
I launch 3D-HH pretty much every time and haven't noticed any difference in the performance of the new firmware on launches. Is HH locking the attitude normally on the bench? Activate 3D-HH and lift the tail, does the elevator rise?
Last edited by choochoo22; Apr 22, 2014 at 03:09 AM.
Apr 22, 2014, 03:12 AM
Registered User
Trevorh's Avatar
Bhodi11: I haven't got a Guardian in a hand launched model so this is just guesswork on my part. However, Rick has reminded us on several occasions that HH is really an Attitude hold feature. As such, the Guardian won't be the least bit bothered if the model sinks after launch, just as long as it is maintaining the set attitude. Maybe you simply need to set a more nose-up attitude before launch?
Apr 22, 2014, 05:45 AM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
The good news with the new firmware is the tighter or more responsive HH commands. However, it seems to also bring about gyro oscillation if the gains were set close to oscillation before the firmware upgrade. This means to me the more active and responsive HH requires some simple dialing in of the gain settings.

Bill
Apr 22, 2014, 07:24 AM
Foam Temple Pilot
JayY's Avatar
For models with rudders the easiest way to know for sure that you have 3D + HH enabled and HH has locked is to rotate model in yaw axis, if rudder deflects and remains deflected until model is returned to original yaw heading you've got it locked. No other mode but 3D + HH can get the rudder to behave like this, while the behavior of the ailerons and elevator in 2D versus 3D + HH can look similar depending on model's attitude.

I used to hand launch my Parkzone T-28 in 2D mode, but I had a mix so I could flip a transmitter switch to apply up elevator for me until I could get my right hand back onto transmitter stick. Without this mix to apply up elevator my 2D hand launches weren't good at all, instead of smoothly climbing to altitude the insufficient angle of attack would cause model to initially dip and then fly close to the ground at a high throttle setting before it would begin to slowly climb. I don't use 2D mode for hand launches any more, 3D mode + HH works great for hand launches if the gain is high enough and heading hold is locking when transmitter sticks are centered. If heading hold is not locking you may have some transmitter trim that Guardian hasn't been made aware of. With the reduced dead band of the beta firmware even small amounts of unaccounted for transmitter trim could prevent heading hold lock. If not locking, you may need to perform the Reset Trims Only gesture (2 toggles) after power on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhodi11
I tried out in 2 planes today setup for 3D + HH, Off, and 3D no HH. For the most part I was very happy especially being able to assign the modes to a 3 position switch on my DX9. One thing I experienced was lack of HH in the 3D + HH mode I set up. I primarily wanted this for hand launching which I do not excel at to say the least. I wanted to basically lock in a decent vertical attitude throttle up, toss, and let the Guardian do the heavy lifting. Problem is HH was not happening? Or maybe it was really docile. No crashes but I was expecting more. I was able to get 2D + HH to work ok. I just set level with the up attitude I wanted. First I tried it on an 800mm Mustang which will normally fly out of my hand almost no problem. It was dicey at best hands off in 2D + HH, Huge dip before it would recover at nearly the last second. I am hoping to get this sorted out for use in my Habu 2 which I will be hand launching and belly landing. It can be a bit of a handful until it gets up to speed. Any suggestions on what I may need to adjust or have set wrong? I have read the manual, and How to set up your Guardian etc..
Apr 22, 2014, 08:43 AM
A man with too many toys

Best Takeoff Mode for Taildragger


Has anyone experimented with ground takeoff 2D+HH and 3D+HH to se what’s best for takeoff with the new firmware? When flying off a paved runway some of my airplanes are a bit of a handful especially in the wind. Has anyone tried both modes on the same aircraft?



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