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Mar 02, 2014, 08:09 PM
RC Lover
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Question

Old Engines Worth


I have recently acquired a Testers McCoy .35 and a Fox .35. Both are used and mounted on control line planes.From the story I got from the previous owner both models and engines have been hanging in a wood working shop for the past 30 to 40 years. Would anyone have any info on what these engines and/or planes would be worth today?
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Mar 02, 2014, 09:38 PM
Registered User
The McCoy is probably about 10 bucks. The Fox depends on which one it is. Probably in the 25 dollar range. Without a picture of the airplanes or what they are , can't tell you a price.
Mar 02, 2014, 10:27 PM
Registered User
Try to find the engines on the 'Bay and see what they have sold for. You will find a ton of Fox 35s. I don't know about the McCoy.
Mar 03, 2014, 01:08 AM
Registered User
There is an old saying about Testor's McCoy red heads. " If you got one started, you just wore it out". I have a box full of them. I'll sell you one for ten bucks plus shipping.
Mar 04, 2014, 09:06 PM
Registered User
Broken Wings's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aes Sedai Warder
I have recently acquired a Testers McCoy .35 and a Fox .35. Both are used and mounted on control line planes.From the story I got from the previous owner both models and engines have been hanging in a wood working shop for the past 30 to 40 years. Would anyone have any info on what these engines and/or planes would be worth today?
I wouldn't take the engines off the planes. Old model airplanes with old engines look good hanging in work shops and garages. They're worth more together than apart.

I'd take some good pictures of them and post them in one of the control line stunt forums.

There's a control line section here on RCG as well as Stuka Stunt Works and another called Stunt Hanger or something of the sort.
Mar 04, 2014, 11:01 PM
Rudder Only Lover
GallopingGhostlr's Avatar
The Testor's engines used a softer iron for the piston. It was susceptible to excessive wear if abused. Also, because they cranked these things out by the thousands, some were lapped loose starting off, or so I am told.

Some have taken the cylinder and piston assemblies from the later Testor Series 21 black head engines, and installed them in the red head crankcases, where those items fit. Then they had an improved engine with better engine life, because the metallurgy in the Series 21 along with the Dykes piston ring had better durability.

AFAIK, the Testor RC version blue head, I read somewhere that they used chromed pistons, which would have solved the soft metallurgy. Also, I heard there was one guy who was supplying chromed pistons, one could send his piston to him and have it chromed, which solved the durability issue.

I have several Testor McCoy Red Head .35's and a .19, and a Series 21 .40 Black Head, but don't have enough run time on them yet to have my own experiential opinion of them yet. I've been told though to run them on the rich side with adequate oil over 20% of at least half that Castor oil, and avoid overheating them, avoid using small chamber mufflers or run without mufflers, etc.

As the flying season is approaching, I plan to fly more CL's and thus will have a better idea of their worthiness. Most those I have spoken with prefer their Testors over the Foxes as sweet running engines, but those are personal preference issues. I don't have but 1 Fox CL, an older .15-X I haven't run yet, so I don't have an opinion yet.

(Yes, CL still lives believe it or not.)
Mar 05, 2014, 12:39 AM
Registered User
The Red head uses a one piece cylinder and the type 21 is completely different. They are not interchangeable.

I flew C/L combat and Rat Race years ago and still have most of my C/L stuff. I fly with old High School buddies a couple times a year. I have a Voodoo, A Demon. Ringmasters, Flite Streak and a bunch of 1/2 A stuff. The big ones all have Johnsons on them. I flew I little stunt too.

Here's a junk box full of Testors Red Heads. I acquired them over the years. My first "big" engine was a Testors Red Head 35. I flew it on a Goldberg Shoe String Stunter. Took about two weeks to realize why it only cost $5.95. I went and bought a Johnson Ball Bearing for $24.95. The difference in price showed in performance. Even a Fox 35 cost $14,95 and was three times the engine the McCoy was.

Use your Fox.
Mar 05, 2014, 12:56 AM
Rudder Only Lover
GallopingGhostlr's Avatar
No, there is a certain amount of changeability in the Series 21 to Red Head. Not in all sizes. Some of the folks that frequent the Brotherhood of the Ring forum can further clarify. The Black Heads use the same style of finned steel cylinders as the Red Heads. The .19's can't be exchanged. It was among the .35's or .40's, or both, can't recall which. Those who do call their Red Heads hybrid engines.

Regarding junk Red Heads, my first was a .19 on a 38" span Sterling S-2 profile P-51 Mustang. It's compression was tight. I bought the engine in high school in the early 1970's. The .40 Black Head Series 21 is the last of a series of about a half dozen I bought in the mid 1970's on sale for a song.

Several have iterated to me that due to the lower cost of the Testors, they'd buy several and use the parts between to come up with a good one, and use the others for repair parts. There was a lot of variation in fit during their manufacture.

Regarding your Testor parts engines, I imagine that for those still flying CL, that they'd be worth something, may be enough to buy a couple good engines of your liking. Fox is still selling their old iron .35 CL, and a number have gravitated toward the OS Max .25-LA as a good replacement for the .35 cross scavenged's of yesteryear. I am told that the Enya .19-V CL I recently purchased has enough power for a Ringmaster S-1.
Mar 05, 2014, 02:30 AM
Registered User
The 21's have a square cylinder and the Red heads are round. The square won't fit on a round crankcase.

I built a same F-51 when I was in high school back in the 60's I used a K&B black head 35 on it. Destroyed it in balloon bust contest. You got double points for hitting the balloon inverted. I hit the ground.

Those engines I have were junk when I acquired them and they still are. Now and then some old guy (like me) tells me he had one as a kid and I give him one for old times sake. Some still have compression but they just weren't run much.

They are worth about 10 bucks. Like I said I give them away. The Red head 19 cost $4.95. That was a buck more than a Cox Babe Bee 049. Does that tell you what the red heads were like?

The Ringmaster was designed for a 19 to 35. With a 19 you were barely moving. The preferred engines back then were the Super Tigres, K&B's, Fox, and Johnsons. They ran from $17.95 to $24.95. That was in 1963. I had to win most of them as I only got paid 25 bucks a month delivering the Seattle Times.

Use your Fox.
Mar 05, 2014, 08:06 AM
Rudder Only Lover
GallopingGhostlr's Avatar
Except that with all due respect you are totally wrong. The Series 21's exhaust stack is rectangular and the Red Head's oval has nothing to do with the internal parts of the engine. Following are quotes from CL forums, LB = McCoy Lightning Bolt crankcase version.

http://clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard...370205&page=22

Quote:
wright45, Tue Dec-20-11 12:25 AM, #17. "RE: Another McCoy Redhead question..." In response to Reply # 8: Dan, Finally saw your blog. Here's what I know. S29 sleeve should fit in a RH 29 case, should you want to make a hybrid 29. For a 35 and 40 the S35 or S40 sleeve won't drop in. You must either machine the RH case (I can't) so get a Lightning bar [LB] sleeve, then use the either LB or RH case, drop in a S21 piston, S21 or Bowman ring, S21wrist pin, S21rod and S21 Head. The head doesn't fit exactly, so I take a 7/64 or 1/8 round file (they make that size to sharpen chain saws) and take about 3 strokes inward on each hole. This brings the head bolt circle close enough to match the LB sleeve and case. These hybrid engines don't have any more power than a new RH, but can be re-ringed a few times before the bushing wears out (use lotsa castor). Dick Wolsey was going to make some hybrid 19's, but I don't know if he finished before he passed away or who might have them. Happy Landings John Wright
Following is from the Brotherhood of the Ring forum. It is a private forum and requires membership to view:

Quote:
Namvet - 8/22/2011 1:11 PM, Subject: Hybrid .35 Mccoy: Thinkin bout going from my .29 McCoy Hybrid on my Super Clown to a .35 McCoy hybrid I just built. I heard somewhere that the .35s are a little tamer than the .29s. I 'm not sure if thats gonna be a good thing? Maybe I should just stay with with the .29 and build a new Ringmaster for the .35. What y'all say?
Quote:
Big Bear - 12/17/2011 11:19 PM, Subject: Hybrid .35 Mccoy: Hi Brother John, I missed this one, sorry. Since I have run both the .29 and .35 Hybrids, I can tell you that the .35 will have more usable power. Both the Red Head and Series 21 are timed exactly alike so there is no reason for the .35 not to be a great runner. Strictly a great 4-2 engine. In fact the Hybrid .29 does a 4-2 better than stock for some strange reason. BIG Bear
Quote:
Big Bear - 7/14/2013 10:21 PM, Subject: McCoy Hybrid:
Quote:
ghostler - 7/14/2013 11:07 PM I'm sure you'll find a home for it. So far I've heard positive reports on using McCoy Series 21 sleeves and pistons in Red Heads, better metallurgy, I hope that over the span of 20 years, that there were improvements over the original McCoy's.
Brother George, Don't know how much better the "metallurgy" is, but the Dykes ring in the Series 21 is the real game changer. All timing, etc, is identical so you still get some of the very best 4-2 engines available that won't wear out due to a lean run with out enough oil. I have multiples in .29, .35, and .40 sizes. All the parts in those sizes are interchangeable. BIG Bear RNMM/AMM
Also, the Enya .19 is a considerably more powerful engine than the McCoy and Fox .19's. Overall the Enyas are considerably more powerful engine than the earlier cross scavenged engines. The smaller engines compare favorably to the plain bearing sport Schneurles of today. My Enya .15-III TV with throttle wired opened and 8x6 prop turn the same lap times on my Ringmaster Jr. as my OS Max .15FP-S with 8x4 prop. Both those engines are too much engine for that plane, was designed for the .15's of the time.
Last edited by GallopingGhostlr; Mar 05, 2014 at 08:13 AM.
Mar 05, 2014, 08:08 AM
Registered User
vic welland's Avatar
The OP would get more money giving the planes a good wiping down and selling them with the engine in to an antique store or retro restaurant. Maybe even at a car show some gear head would want them in his shop.
For me this would be better than getting labeled as selling a worn out engine here or on the bay.
Mar 05, 2014, 11:30 AM
Closed Account
Another new member potentially run off due to the complete derailing of his thread by 'all knowing individuals" and their egos.
Mar 05, 2014, 11:55 AM
Registered User
The red Head does not use a sleeve type cylinder. It is one piece containing the cylinder and the cooling fins as a complete unit.. There is no way to put the 21's sleeve into the RH's cylinder.
Mar 05, 2014, 12:18 PM
Rudder Only Lover
GallopingGhostlr's Avatar
Sir, use of the term "sleeve" when referred to either the Testor Red Head or Series 21 Black Head are in reference to steel fin cylinder. The Series 21 does not use a sleeve. This is my last conversation with you.
Mar 05, 2014, 12:47 PM
Rudder Only Lover
GallopingGhostlr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aes Sedai Warder
I have recently acquired a Testers McCoy .35 and a Fox .35. Both are used and mounted on control line planes.From the story I got from the previous owner both models and engines have been hanging in a wood working shop for the past 30 to 40 years. Would anyone have any info on what these engines and/or planes would be worth today?
Do you have photos of the plane? The Testor's engine, if Red Head in good condition have been going for about $20 to $30 plus shipping on E-Bay. The Fox .35's have been going for about double that.

The airplane depends upon the type and condition. Greatest hinderance is the cost of shipping, as usually these CL planes don't break down and require a large sturdy box. These are specialty market items, and perhaps you may get more by selling in an antique venue, but that would be a challenge to line up the right buyers with.

Your best bet would be to post in forums such as http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php, which is the Stuka Stunt Forums or http://www.stunthanger.com/index.html

Another is http://www.coxengineforum.com/

They require membership but are free to join. There, you could mention what you have. Also, there may be CL fliers nearby where you live, you would have better luck with them especially if you want to sell, I imagine.


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