30cc AeroWorks Extra 260 QB Conversion to Electric - RC Groups
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Mar 01, 2014, 10:33 PM
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bobmixon's Avatar
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30cc AeroWorks Extra 260 QB Conversion to Electric


Greetings all,

I am converting my 30cc AeroWorks Extra 260 QB from, the current DLE 35RA, to electric. I looking to go with the Hacker A60-6XS V2 motor on 8S batteries.

My plane currently has a SmartFly power distribution and battery fail-over with (2) Fromeco 2300 mAh batteries. This setup has been working flawlessly and provides plenty of power to the Hitec 7955TG servos.

I have a question about the ESC/BEC setup. Is it okay for me to bypass the ESC's BEC (clipping power wire) and continue to use the SmartFly for receiver/servo power. This would also allow all motor battery to be dedicated to the motor. Will this work okay?

Correct me if I am wrong but the BEC is only for regulated power for receiver and servos correct? Which I already have with the SmartFly.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and wisdom!

Bob
Last edited by bobmixon; Mar 23, 2014 at 02:00 PM.
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Mar 01, 2014, 11:27 PM
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bobmixon's Avatar
Greetings Again,

I have another question about batteries. Is there any advantage to purchasing a single 8S battery, which is (2) 4S batteries wired in series, versus using (2) of my 4S batteries. I am most interested to know if the wires are a larger gauge when a 8S battery is purchased?

Thank you,
Bob
Last edited by bobmixon; Mar 23, 2014 at 02:01 PM.
Mar 02, 2014, 01:53 AM
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manuel v's Avatar
If the receiver has an external power supply, it is not necessary that the ESC connector has connected the red wire.
If the ESC is a Castle Opto, then the red wire should be connected to receive 5 volts from the battery of the receiver and be able to arm ESC. together.
Possibly some ESC use this same option.

What ESC are using?

It's the same 5s use 2 batteries and use an external harness, a single battery 10s.
Possibly more like using two packs of 5s both buying, handling and charged
But it would be a matter of taste or opportunities.


A small reflector on electrifying a 26cc airplane
Use translate option.
http://aeromodelismoelectrico.blogsp...6-30cc_23.html

Maybe is necessary only 6slipo with Metts 20x10
O 8s with metts 18x8.
For around 19.8 Lbs thrust.

Manuel V.
Mar 02, 2014, 10:25 AM
Registered User
Doug Bartley's Avatar
FWIW if you lose a cell in a 10S battery you've lost it all!! If one cell goes bad in a 5S, its far cheaper to replace that one 5s pack. You also may have other equipment that uses the 5s packs. Sometimes the 2 5s packs can help with weight distribution or placement to get CG or available space.
You can also use smaller batteries for the Rx/servo. Average consumption over a 10 minute flight is 100-250mah on average, so packs 1/2 the size you have would allow 10-15 flights (2 packs on your power board). Check consumption for your flying style, you are already redundant with a 2 pack system.
I use a single 2s/1800/20c pack for Rx/servo (6) thru a 15a Bec, consumption has averaged 110-125mah for 6 minute flights. No 3D. Doug B
Mar 04, 2014, 11:50 AM
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bobmixon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bartley
FWIW if you lose a cell in a 10S battery you've lost it all!! If one cell goes bad in a 5S, its far cheaper to replace that one 5s pack. You also may have other equipment that uses the 5s packs. Sometimes the 2 5s packs can help with weight distribution or placement to get CG or available space.
You can also use smaller batteries for the Rx/servo. Average consumption over a 10 minute flight is 100-250mah on average, so packs 1/2 the size you have would allow 10-15 flights (2 packs on your power board). Check consumption for your flying style, you are already redundant with a 2 pack system.
I use a single 2s/1800/20c pack for Rx/servo (6) thru a 15a Bec, consumption has averaged 110-125mah for 6 minute flights. No 3D. Doug B
Hi Doug,

I completely agree. I do intend on using (2) 5S 5000mAh batteries (in series). I have other planes that run on 5S so they can be multi-purpose.

Bob
Mar 04, 2014, 12:03 PM
Registered User
bobmixon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v
If the receiver has an external power supply, it is not necessary that the ESC connector has connected the red wire.
If the ESC is a Castle Opto, then the red wire should be connected to receive 5 volts from the battery of the receiver and be able to arm ESC. together.
Possibly some ESC use this same option.

What ESC are using?

It's the same 5s use 2 batteries and use an external harness, a single battery 10s.
Possibly more like using two packs of 5s both buying, handling and charged
But it would be a matter of taste or opportunities.


A small reflector on electrifying a 26cc airplane
Use translate option.
http://aeromodelismoelectrico.blogsp...6-30cc_23.html

Maybe is necessary only 6slipo with Metts 20x10
O 8s with metts 18x8.
For around 19.8 Lbs thrust.

Manuel V.
Hi Manuel,

Thank you for the information. I have many smaller electric airplanes and the setup/configuration is quite easy. It's a bit more difficult with this setup and I want to make sure I get it right the first time.

Before I dive too much deeper in to the wiring configuration, I have more questions about the ESC.

I can't seem to find the Castle Opto ESC. Does Castle still make them?

Would the "Castle Creations Phoenix Edge 120 HV 50V 120 Amp ESC" be a good choice?

Also, I do understand what you mean by "arming the ESC". But I'm not sure I entirely understand what you mean by "the red wire".

Once I understand and select the ESC, I plan on putting together a wiring drawing (schematic) and adding it to this thread so I can get input from you and others. Just to make sure I get it right and not blow anything up!
Mar 04, 2014, 12:07 PM
Registered User
manuel v's Avatar
Maybe is necessary only 6slipo with Metts 20x10
O 8s with metts 18x8.
For around 19.8 Lbs thrust.



Definitely, this motor is not for 10slipo
Since it would only be for a APCe 15x8 and this is not an appropriate propeller for this model.
.

According to the service provider's, it's just for 6slipo and 20x10 APCE.
http://www.espritmodel.com/hacker-a6...s-motor-2.aspx


Manuel V.
Mar 04, 2014, 12:20 PM
Registered User
bobmixon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v
Maybe is necessary only 6slipo with Metts 20x10
O 8s with metts 18x8.
For around 19.8 Lbs thrust.



Definitely, this motor is not for 10slipo
Since it would only be for a APCe 15x8 and this is not an appropriate propeller for this model.
.

According to the service provider's, it's just for 6slipo and 20x10 APCE.
http://www.espritmodel.com/hacker-a6...s-motor-2.aspx


Manuel V.
Hi Manuel,

Thank you again; you have been a lot of help while I go through this learning process.

The other motor I am looking at is the Rimfire 1.60.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLWW1
It looks as though it has plenty of power for this airplane.

Thoughts?

Thank you,
Bob
Mar 04, 2014, 03:34 PM
Plowin Dirt
deckert's Avatar
Bob, take a look see here for motor. They're a tad higher cost but the vendor is outstanding for support. Kens motors tend to be lighter & deliver more power than equivalent motors. I destroyed 2 of his motors and had them back in 14 days. At least he can/will rebuild them if needed.

Rimfire 1.60 63-62-250/ AUW-628 grams
Hacker A60-6xs V2/ AUW-480 grams
MotrolFly DM 4330-240/ AUW-560 grams (Includes X mount)

I'd think your Castle ESC choice should be good. The opto thing just means there's no BEC built into the ESC. Your Smart-Fly should work. Just be sure to remove the red wire from the ESC that goes to the receiver. I think I have that right..

One critical thing to note is the power when plugging the packs in. The IMAC guy that flies electric power here has a switch of some kind. He blew his leads apart when he 1st set his up. I mean blew up like a hand grenade! I seem to remember he was using 4 packs. I can try & track him down if you want. He's been electric IMAC for a few years. He may have been using a 50cc bird?

Dan


Last edited by deckert; Mar 04, 2014 at 03:48 PM.
Mar 04, 2014, 05:52 PM
Registered User
bobmixon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckert
Bob, take a look see here for motor. They're a tad higher cost but the vendor is outstanding for support. Kens motors tend to be lighter & deliver more power than equivalent motors. I destroyed 2 of his motors and had them back in 14 days. At least he can/will rebuild them if needed.

Rimfire 1.60 63-62-250/ AUW-628 grams
Hacker A60-6xs V2/ AUW-480 grams
MotrolFly DM 4330-240/ AUW-560 grams (Includes X mount)

I'd think your Castle ESC choice should be good. The opto thing just means there's no BEC built into the ESC. Your Smart-Fly should work. Just be sure to remove the red wire from the ESC that goes to the receiver. I think I have that right..

One critical thing to note is the power when plugging the packs in. The IMAC guy that flies electric power here has a switch of some kind. He blew his leads apart when he 1st set his up. I mean blew up like a hand grenade! I seem to remember he was using 4 packs. I can try & track him down if you want. He's been electric IMAC for a few years. He may have been using a 50cc bird?

Dan


Hi Dan,

I will look in to the MotrolFly motors. I am also looking for an ESC that doesn't have an integrated BEC.

I have already purchased an arming plug that has a capacitor in it. This aids with pugging in/unplugging of your batteries.

If you can find the IMSC guy you are referring to, that would be great. Any wisdom from someone who already has the experience would be great!

I am going to build a 50cc size Extra 300 and convert it to electric. I just can't afford all that right now.

I'm primarily doing this so I can get out to the field with little effort and learn the 2014 sequence. After that, I will most likely compete with my 100cc Extra 260; the plane I competed with, in IMAC, last year.

Thanks again...
Bob
Mar 04, 2014, 06:01 PM
100% electric since 1990
twest's Avatar
All castle controllers with "HV" in the title are optocoupled, do NOT have a BEC, and will not work work at all if you remove the red wire.

Wire gauge is based on current (amp) draw, not voltage (number of cells). 10-12 gauge is fine for this projects. Having a short length of wire between battery and esc (total length, including wire on bat packs, esc, and anything in between) is most important.
Mar 04, 2014, 06:04 PM
Registered User
bobmixon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twest
All castle controllers with "HV" in the title are optocoupled, do NOT have a BEC, and will not work work at all if you remove the red wire.
Thank you! Is it safe for me to assume the red wire is for arming the ESC?

I will look in to the "HV" ESC because I would prefer no BEC.

Bob
Mar 04, 2014, 06:10 PM
Registered User
Yeah I was gonna say the same as ^^. Most ESC's that can handle 10s don't have BEC circuits. I don't use a BEC in any airplane that I care about - I like the Rx power to be separate.

It is hard to find single 10S batteries. If you see one, there is a chance it is actually two 5s packs heat-shrunk together. You likely have to connect wires together to make it work. There are fairly strict rules about shipping lithium batteries with that much stored energy. Most of us running 10s or more just use two 5S packs wired in series.

There is nothing wrong with Hacker motors and the US service is great. I don't think you're looking at the right motor though for 10S sequence flying. You want something in the 215-230kV range, and probably 500g or more. Pair that motor with a 20x12 prop or something like that. The motor you looked at is for 6S to 8S.

Also note, you will need the weight in the nose to balance your 30cc gasser. If you choose a motor just because it is lighter, you'll likely have to add lead to the nose, or work really hard at moving things around.

I have a Plettenberg Advance (230kV, 21x12 prop) and a Neu inrunner, geared to 220kV and a 19x12.

I am flying a 10s 30cc Sbach in IMAC this year. It is still in the box, but hopefully not for too much longer. I have been flying other 10s aerobats (69" Yak on 10s, and some smaller F3A airplanes). This year I have the 30cc Sbach and a 2M pattern plane.
Mar 04, 2014, 06:11 PM
Registered User
It doesn't really matter which wire the arming plug goes on, but most put it on the red wire. It is a DC circuit which forms a closed loop, so it really can be anywhere between the battery pack and the ESC
Mar 04, 2014, 06:12 PM
Registered User
You NEED an HV ESC to run 10s. If it is not HV it is not meant to handle the higher voltage, probably 8s max or maybe 6s.