Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by Daemon, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Feb 24, 2014, 08:27 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Thread OP
Cool

My latest FPV project.


Here's a teaser for my latest project. Everything pictured here acts
as a complete system. The only thing not shown in the pic is a set of goggle and the DVR.
Yes the quad on the right got beat with an ugly stick, but it's fully functional
and those long wires let me set it up with arms up to twice as long, in only a few minutes.

The complete system has been flown several times, and proven to work, so all I'm waiting on
is good weather and an interesting location to demonstrate its capabilities.
Some elements of this project have been done before, but in many ways
its totally unique. Stay tuned. All will be explained.

Feel free to speculate in comments on what it is, and how it works.

ian
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Feb 24, 2014, 09:29 PM
Registered User
Well, that's so obvious and something I've been thinking about for a while. It's a repeater system. 2 pilots, one flies the "repeater" quad in a position in view of the ground station and wherever you want the "roaming" quad to fly. Brilliant!

Hmmm... just one transmitter. Perhaps the "repeater" hangs out in a fixed position using GPS.
Feb 24, 2014, 09:48 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Thread OP
Yep, just one 2.4Ghz RC transmitter, and one 2.4Ghz RC receiver.
Feb 24, 2014, 10:13 PM
Registered User
Do I win a prize? I can't believe no one else is interested, and you're just the guy to do it.
Feb 24, 2014, 10:16 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Thread OP
No prize, but have you figured out how both quads are actively controlled from one transmitter?
The concept of an airborne relay is not new. Others have done it.
This guy http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread....his-guy-do-it/
does it using two relays + FPV quad, and a total of three transmitters.
Last edited by Daemon; Feb 24, 2014 at 11:04 PM.
Feb 24, 2014, 11:56 PM
Registered User
Well, you've got 16 channels with that Taranis so you probably send the channels for both quads up in a single PPM stream to the relay. The relay then strips its control stream off the PPM stream and sends the remainder to the roamer. There are various ways to accomplish this. I'd just get a big honking receiver for the relay and use a PWM to PPM encoder to transmit to the required channels to the roamer and another to encode the PWM channels for the relay into its controller.

There's certainly a more elegant way.
Feb 25, 2014, 12:07 AM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Thread OP
Taranis doesn't use PPM at all when it transmits 16ch, but you're on the right track. The
single FrSky Rx on the relay only has 6 PWM outputs + S-BUS. I hope I found the
most elegant way.
Last edited by Daemon; Feb 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM.
Feb 25, 2014, 01:39 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Taranis doesn't use PPM at all when it transmits 16ch, but you're on the right track. The
single FrSky Rx on the relay only has 6 PWM outputs + S-BUS. I hope I found the
most elegant way.
Ah... S-BUS... a great new tool in the tool-box that I just never consider because I've never used it or even seen it. It has so much to offer. I hope it becomes the future.

Look forward to reading about it all.
Feb 26, 2014, 02:57 AM
Registered User
charosenz's Avatar

airborne repeater


Daemon,

Super thread, thanks for sharing. Can't wait for more info.....

(I hope my next comment is not viewed as a hijack, but rather a thought on the aerial repeater topic....)

I had actually been thinking about an aerial repeater and the idea of using a small helium balloon to effectively reduce the weight on a quad, to increase time aloft. Of course it would need to have the motors mounted upside down on the arms, but several folks have found that to be a very stable platform in itself.

....and it would not work for a windy day, but it could really increase aloft times....

Just curious, as long as you have been at this, if you know of anyone who has tried this.

regardless, thanks for sharing and good flying to you.
Feb 26, 2014, 11:42 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Thread OP
It's an interesting idea, but I see two problems.
1. Everywhere I've ever flown is either windy, or thermally. A quad tethered to a
balloon is going to get pulled around a lot because it's not just a source of lift, but also
a pretty big sail because a balloon big enough to take say 1Kg of weight off a 2Kg relay quad
is over a meter in diameter.
2. My relay gear (decased 1.3Ghz VRX, decased 433Mhz UHF Tx, 2.4Ghz RC Rx
and voltage regulator) only weighs 180 grams.
A 2100mAh 3S battery to power it, another 170 grams.
That's 1/3Kg all up. The tethered balloon required to lift that is significantly smaller
than the one you'd need to lift half the quad's weight.
Mar 02, 2014, 07:28 PM
Build Fly Crash Repeat
crezzee's Avatar
I really like the way you have it setup with one RC tx, that is novel.
So Frsky rx ppm stream to your lrs transmitter and S-bus to Naza?

I don't own a taranis but i know they are very programmable. My guess is you can create 2 maps for the sticks, 1 map with channels 1 to 5 (for the whaka quad) and another map for the S-bus channels (for the Naza quad) and you flip a switch to select either.

Procedure:

1. Fly the repeater quad up to desired altitude and switch to loiter.
2. Flip tx switch to map 2.
3. Fly battle quad around til you crash into tree.
4. Flip tx switch back to map 1 and land repeater quad.
5. Go find battle quad.

Looks like you have your LRS tx hanging below the repeater quad for some rf seperation.

Either way, your setup makes ARENDATOROVnet's solution look a bit OTT.
Mar 03, 2014, 12:06 AM
Registered User
charosenz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
It's an interesting idea, but I see two problems.
1. Everywhere I've ever flown is either windy, or thermally. A quad tethered to a
balloon is going to get pulled around a lot because it's not just a source of lift, but also
a pretty big sail because a balloon big enough to take say 1Kg of weight off a 2Kg relay quad
is over a meter in diameter.
2. My relay gear (decased 1.3Ghz VRX, decased 433Mhz UHF Tx, 2.4Ghz RC Rx
and voltage regulator) only weighs 180 grams.
A 2100mAh 3S battery to power it, another 170 grams.
That's 1/3Kg all up. The tethered balloon required to lift that is significantly smaller
than the one you'd need to lift half the quad's weight.
Daemon,

I agree....the wind would be the nemesis to my idea. I was actually wondering how large the balloon would need to be to provide a substantial relief (of the weight) so thanks for providing that bit of information...

I am going to "stay tuned" to read more about your project. Good flying to you.
Mar 06, 2014, 03:03 AM
Fight for the Right to FPV!!!
melsailsnorth's Avatar
Very cool experiment Ian! I'm trying to figure-out if you actually flew the lift quad with the controls reassigned to different pots on your Taranus or if there could be some way to use a buddy box to control it while the main controls on the Taranus were reassigned to control the H-quad? The difficulty I see with using one radio's alternate controls is that they don't self center so if you accidentally tap one during flight you could risk a disaster.. I guess if you didn't want actual physical control of the lift quad aside from arming and throttle, you could just assign rudder elevator and aileron to two way switches with one side being center and the other side being the needed combo to arm the copter. This would give you the ability to arm the quad and then you would just need a slider or pot to control it's throttle. however you slice it, it's pretty amazing that you were able to put together all that mixing and actually fly them both at once with a single control transmission.

Both my guesses at how you did it are probably way off but "oh well" it's still fun to take a stab at it . Thanks for sharing this and the video!
Last edited by melsailsnorth; Mar 06, 2014 at 03:15 AM.
Mar 06, 2014, 09:17 AM
Registered User
schumixmd's Avatar
so.. the first sentence of last orator was also in my mind... but little bit different, since you said that only one tx is used but a buddy box will imply a second tx anyway...
either a switch is used to put one quad in position hold and assign sticks to control channels of the second quad and vice-versa...
either considering you have an NAZA-M v2, the relay quad is flying by itself to a predefined waypoint and hold the position, while the ugly quad is flying further...
Mar 06, 2014, 11:51 AM
Fight for the Right to FPV!!!
melsailsnorth's Avatar
I see a couple guys suggest a sort of mapping with a switch to go between the quads but even the Naza needs a constant dynamic throttle response to hover in place as far as I know. You could have all channels go to a failsafe position for the Naza quad when flipping to the other "map" but it would probably either land itself (failsafe) or fall out of the sky due to lack of any dynamic throttle control to maintain hover. I'm sure he's programmed an "oh ship" switch into the mix, though, to take advantage of the naza-quad's ability to land itself (if need be) and it may be an auto-land we see in the video. As nice and easy as A/B mapping would be, I just can't conceptualize how you could make it work. I think you would have to map all the channels for one of the quads to completely alternate switches/pots on the radio so you could have full-time access to both throttles at the same time. Although it's a remarkable feat, I think I'd replace the Naza with an APM and run a 15 minute auto mission sequence for the lift quad using my phone or laptop and free-up the Taranus for just flying the H-quad. Just a little less-complex way of accomplishing the same thing.


Quick Reply
Message:
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion My Latest Projects MikeCr Balsa Builders 7 Jun 05, 2016 10:17 AM
Idea "JOFRODIS" my latest project. jofro Scratchbuilt EDFs 9 May 01, 2016 05:57 PM