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Mar 14, 2014, 03:42 PM
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Its worth a build...
here the second flight today.. more interesting
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EPP PP1 19 version outdoors flight2 (7 min 57 sec)
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Mar 14, 2014, 07:41 PM
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Your right,sure seems to fly like the ones we built
Mar 16, 2014, 07:46 AM
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what did you used to fly? this one came out my head not long ago, but there must be others similar
Mar 16, 2014, 11:35 AM
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I'm refering to the paper planes we built as kids.I never tried it with gear yet

I just picked up 3mm depron yesterday for the first time.Also have a couple 3.7g and 5g servos,and 1811-2000 10g motor hmmm....
Mar 28, 2014, 01:04 AM
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Found an odd effect last night, moving the COG back a bit altered the roll rate..
with a slightly forward COG roll is fast using elevons and twinkle fast using rudder+elevons..
move the COG back and the roll slows a lot, and the model will want to stick stable and level when inverted..

all good fun , the model is taking a fair old bashing and keeps flying reliably well..
slow high alpha flight is so easy.. hover etc all good .. hold on rudder and up and the model goes nose high in tight circles staying almost on the spot...
Its a lot of fun, even my flying buddy who is heavy thumbed can fly his around with ease.. he just likes easy cruising as a lot of the others do indoors, while I fly the aerobatics and bash and flash about..

In our indoor sessions we get three half hour slots for planes... so I take three models.. last night only one stayed completely unscathed ..
two broken props and a snapped servo arm(unusual) plus one model chopped in half.. about an average fun night
Last edited by davereap; Mar 28, 2014 at 01:11 AM.
Aug 31, 2014, 11:23 AM
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After flying the indoor PP1 for a year now, its got tatty... too many mid airs and bumps lol.. its still going well, but I wanted to build an EPP version for this years indoor sessions which will start soon..
Robot Birds has some nice coloured EPP, small and expensive sheets, but worth using on a model that you know will go well..
I have made a couple of changes to simplify the build, the basic shape is the same, but I am using a simple 12mm EPP spline instead of the V shaped fuze..

Note I made this with the older shape step lines, later I added sections to bring the step lines to a more correct shape, I also uprated the motor to a 15gm -1700kv job.. The bigger motors give a smoother and more powerful thrust and lastly the servos were upped to 3.7gm hobbykings

The wing is all 6mm coloured EPP and it has a KFm2 section as before..

The build is easy, starting by part slitting the main layer down the centre, so it can be folded down and cool melt put in the crack to hold its dihedral angle.. 20 degrees is fine.. the depron version has 20 this ended up far less at 12 degrees..
The top KF layer is laminated/applied in two halves and any crack filled with glue
Butt joints and laminating uses UHU por and the joints are reinforced with cool melt adhesive in the angles ..

Ive been flying this for a while using the 1811-2900 motor and it remains a favourite model... I am flying it with either a 500 2s or a 1000 2s lipo for longer flights, the model takes the extra weight of a 1000 with no problems.
I take this as my fall back model to every indoor session...
The tiny 2gm servos are still working fine, I did think they might not be good enough, but they have turned out to be longer lasting than some 3.7 hobbyking servos... the 3.7's have been stripping gears at the slightest knock
Last edited by davereap; May 26, 2015 at 11:10 AM.
Aug 31, 2014, 11:27 AM
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All the gear was taken from the old model..

COG 20% is 4.25" from the front...25% is at 5" from the front.. which is where the front edge of the pallet strapping runs across the wing

with a 500 2s lipo the AUW is 135 gms...

I had expected more .. the old model was flying at 115gms but with only a 300 2s lipo.. I had taken to flying it with the 500's for a longer flight, but never did bother to re-weigh it

Ive now gone up to using a 1000mA lipo for longer flights and the model flies very well , easily carrying the extra weight of 154gms ..5.5oz and it is flying with a 3.6ozsqft loading.. all the usual aerobatics are still done and slow flight can be reduced to a nose up harrier crawl with ease.. its so nice and stable...

its continuing to be a real pleasure to fly.. and is always taken out...

edit now at may 2015 its still flying and in good condition, despite taking much punishment...
Last edited by davereap; May 26, 2015 at 11:12 AM.
Sep 19, 2014, 02:17 AM
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The flight on the EPP version is perfect.. acrobatically its a lot of fun , all sorts of tight manoeuvers, loops rolls hover inverted all good..yet it can be flown slow and easy.. trim it out and it will do hands off circuits , going round and round with no input required....a good all rounder for indoor sessions..
Best is that the EPP is tough and bouncy for collisions, and the coloured stuff is so pretty...

video using a 1000 mA 2s lipo at 154gms
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PP1 indoor session (6 min 15 sec)
Last edited by davereap; Oct 13, 2014 at 04:40 AM.
Sep 21, 2014, 02:46 AM
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Alternative top layer cuts....
I did these to show what shapes the steps can be made as... the KF step on these is mainly for providing extra strength, but we have noticed the steps always add stability..
Last edited by davereap; Jun 23, 2016 at 12:58 AM.
Sep 26, 2014, 04:31 AM
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Following on the PP1 is going up to a 24" span.. with a KFm2 wing...
6mm depron for the main parts and the spline and nose block area will be two or three layers of 12mm EPP..
The motor mount this time will be a Nylon Tube type cut into the lower depron layer to get down and right thrust. and the EPP blocks which will hold the UC are trimmed to fit over the tube mount
There will be pallet strapping across the wing where the dotted lines are seen
So simple with not so many bits to cut, it took about an hour to measure and cut it all out..
The U/C legs will be a CF "X" frame as per my small versions with an axel tied at the bottom of the X.. that gets lashed to some thin ply plates and cool melt glued to the nose blocks

first I cut a kit of parts.. about 12 bits

later on I put this much together..
The main layer is partially cut along the centre line, folded down at a 20degree angle (12-20 is fine).. and the crack is filled with cool melt glue.. that holds the dihedral..
note missing picture step... The KF step layer is fitted in two halves, laminated using UHU por.. centre gaps filled with cool melt..
The tube mount is cut in.. and cool melt glued in place.. remember to cut for the thrust lines.. some 5 down and 2-3 right..
The nose block is laminated and fitted over the mount.. UHU por or cool melt glue
Pallet strapping is now fitted across the wing top and bottom.. UHU por
The lower spline is trimmed to fit the dihedral and glued in place.. UHU por ..then cool melt is run in along the joints of the spline and nose block
The fin and rudder are taped and hinged with a front 3mm CF stiffener down the front edge and into the spline for strength
Control surfaces are fully taped and tape hinged to the wing.. likewise the tip fins are taped and glued on..
The leading edge is taped top and bottom for damage prevention..
Now with 3x 9gm servos , a 20A esc , orange RX, and an 800 3s lipo the AUW is 14.5oz
power is an AXI 2208/35 swinging a 9x5 gws prop
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Last edited by davereap; Sep 27, 2014 at 12:16 PM.
Sep 28, 2014, 06:03 AM
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The 24" PP1 has now flown.. It is excellent, like the smaller versions , but with more speed and power..elevon only rolls are axial with the COG set correctly , with a moderate roll rate at mid rate settings.. with rudder and elevons the rolls are super fast...
inverted is good, still all easy, even to gliding hands off inverted.. harriers great, slow speed flight great .. loops tight
Its an easy flier, fly it sedately or wildly..
flown at 16oz+ with a 1300 3s lipo, I got nice long flights...on about a 5ozsqft loading

The 2208/34 AXI has loads of power, with a 9x5 prop ,its a good match.. so any other motor 100-150W swinging a bigger prop will go well

video..... DUH!!! ...2 minutes of black because I forgot to remove the lens cap.. then the battery run out...
so that will have to wait till tomorrow.. its now recharging..
Sep 29, 2014, 01:15 AM
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note on dihedral angles...

They have all been flattened out somewhat in the building process..
The small 16" EPP went from an initial set 20* down to an measured end 12*..
The small depron versions set at 20 * ended at 16*
And my new 24 set at 25* went down to 20*

So likely laminating the KF layers and whatever else Ive done looses some of the dihedral...

This has made no difference to the flight as far as I can tell.. just having a reasonable amount of dihedral makes the model stable.. all versions are flying super..
I did notice more self righting on the big 20* version, it keeps bouncing back to level flight after getting knocked about by the wind.. other than that they all fly much the same

also the roll rate seems faster on the big depron version.... I put this down more to the stiffness of the tape covered elevons, and their larger movements.. down to horn pushrod mechanics
Last edited by davereap; Oct 03, 2014 at 05:21 AM.
Sep 29, 2014, 10:09 AM
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24" videos..
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24 inch PP1 flying 29 9 2014 no1 (10 min 33 sec)

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24 inch PP1 flying 29 9 2014 no2 (4 min 35 sec)
Last edited by davereap; Sep 29, 2014 at 10:36 AM.
Oct 08, 2014, 12:21 AM
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Ive got one in white ready for servos. It is a 19 inch span. I goofed and made it two inches too short. I know, cut, then measure is the foamy motto. Cg calc came to the rescue, and it balances with the gear resting on the wing. Just needs tape and enough paint so I can see it. Made the body squareish... my teaching load is such that I wont get to maiden it until next week.


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