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Feb 16, 2014, 02:16 AM
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My Super Simples . PP1 and Gymball. Easy Build, Easy to Fly , designs,


PP1 and Gymball
Some models are exceptional... here are two of my favorite indoor models for crash and bash.. the PP1 and Gymball are superb easy fliers..
The recommended models are made from a single layer of 9mm EPP they are very easy to make and are extremely durable..

If you don't have 8-9mm EPP but do have thinner foam, then make them with the KFm2 wing

why have they turned out so good...... pure luck,..... the model worked out perfect first time
I have used high center dihedral on them all, 10degrees per wing, which has significantly improved their low speed handling and their stability at all speeds...but not at the expense of their excellent aerobatic abilities

I started with a Paper Plane based design.......The PP1.. all straight cuts with a 1:1 square format, span to length

Next came my circular design, I call it a Gymball.. with its high dihedral it flies exactly like a Nutball , having kept all of the Nutballs good qualities, but this one has a better more axial roll, it flies inverted and will hover..

It is similar to the Nutball or UFO models in shape, and circular wing shapes fly well...

NOTE.... recommended builds for inside and outside the PP1 at 17" span and the Gymball at 18" diameter are great.. Make them from 9mmEPP .. for gluing EPP use a craft low temperature glue gun or UHU POR glue...
using the pic 1 plan lines the PP1

Indoors My recommended PP1 size is at 17" ...
use a KFm2 build when you have 5 or 6mm EPP , or a single layer build, no KF step with 9mm EPP..
new indoor build...recommended... 17" PP1 from 9mm EPP.. this one has no step and flies exactly the same as the KF version.. because it has no step layer the front has been strengthened with pallet strapping round the leading edge.. Its an easier build and without having the second layer to laminate uses a bit less adhesive..

My gear for the 17" PP1 and 18" Gymball ..indoor models....
All from hobbyking... Do get them from your local warehouse first.... some of these are global and some from uk...
Motor used a 2211-1700 kv, ..note there are a number of similar sized motors from other sources
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...strSearch=2211
on a 2s 500 lipo, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=34264
with a 12A ESC , http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._BEC_BESC.html
3x 4.4gm servos , http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=28410
orange RX .. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Receiver_.html
8x4.3SF gws prop , http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
the props are not the strongest, but they go well with less power drawn than other types..

.. the above setup for 2s is very good... however weve flown with many variations in the gear using 10gm motors up ward.. 5gm servos etc.. all are fine, so go with the closest gear you've got...

but I have found the above recommended gear is about the best suited size for our venue, and its all cheap bits...

The recommended PP1 ...9mm EPP indoor size build is here.. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...105719&page=17

For outside 20" up.. 6mm depron has been good... dollar shop art board is also good all three models work well at bigger sizes and flying outside.. a KFm2 or KFm4 is best depending on the size..
personally the PP1 and Gymball are my favourites.. because the PP2 had a couple of quirks that put me off when I try to fly it super slow, nose high
Ive made a 24" PP1 using 6mm depron with a KFm2..that flew great... its now cut to the PP2 shape and is waiting for a flight outside..
and two PP1's at 30" , one version using cheap builders polystyrene, one using a KFm4 and 6mm depron, they are both great...
I recommend using a KFm4 for the biggest build, with a doubled main layer and single layer steps.. the builders polystyrene is a bit soft so wont last any way near as long..

Outside......Scale the PP1 and Gymball to suit the gear you've got handy..

The PP1 design is based on an old paper plane I used to make as a kid, it was simple to fold and one that would always go well..
below is the folding sequence for the kids model
It came up when talking with my flying buddy about the old days and I thought lets do it from foam..

So sketchup got running and the model was quickly drawn up..

The first build tried was made from 3mm depron and was at 16" span sized to work with the smaller 1811-2900 12gm motor indoor setup we have been using.. a wing of 200 to 225 sq inches area has been giving us a reasonable final weight model so that's what we used

The model used two layers to make a KFm2..step on top design.. pic3.... the top step now shown coloured yellow... its not a 50% step, its at a lesser %age.. more a step for strength than effect. it does add strength stiffness and damage resistance.. two layers are better than one..

there is a sketchup file in the zip, this will let you scale the model easily and quickly.. its saved from the latest version of sketchup , so if you need and older save let me know

The Gymball is based on the Nutball... except the nutball's tip dihedral is removed and Ive used center dihedral to lift the wing tips back to the same height as you will find on your Nutball... lol confused.. the dihedral angle at the center of a Gymball needs to be set at half the angle used on each tip of your nutball.. ..

edit 2016.... I have been trying a 2204-14t motor from hobbyking... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...earch=2204-14t its working well and is a good match for these models


NOTE the pics below are for the indoor versions
Last edited by davereap; Sep 12, 2018 at 11:42 PM.
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Feb 16, 2014, 02:28 AM
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EDIT note the first build has been simplified and modified... see post 69 for the new simpler build..
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...2105719&page=5

and https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...105719&page=17 for the new 9mm EPP model...note this one is not a KF...

the V shaped body below has been replaced with a 2 layered laminated spline, stiffened with pallet strapping.. see the last pic below..
and the top step shape was revised for a bit more wing stiffening..
Its easy to cut the gear into the spline, keeping it surrounded by EPP, and held on using velcro..

the pictures below show the first build method we used ...we were using 3mm depron for the build....it was at a 16" span..
again note, its not the build to use...see above

the build pics seen below were taken from the second build, a 19" 6mm EPP model...
...
The spar strapping on the 3mm depron is fitted across the span in line with the step, tape was used as décor and all control surfaces were fully covered to make them stiff.. wing tip fins and leading edge are also covered to add stiffness and strength.. hinges are all full length clear tape,
horns are from dental flossers, paper clips for the Z bends and CF pushrods
On all my indoor models I used EPP for a nose block, this is much better for spreading the impact and landing stresses

depron is lighter but EPP gives better bounce.. If you can get some then 9mm EPP is best for indoor bumps and bashes
depron with tape is however quite tough, its already had multiple bangs and is perfectly fine..

My first depron build lasted a season before it started looking tatty and bashed, my flying buddy's one is still being used, now two years old, but he flies it more gentle than I do, he just likes to cruise around

The depron models flight proved so nice, both fast and slow, that I made a second bigger version using 5mm EPP.. this was at 19.5 span with a 20-25gm motor..
NOTE all the construction pics were taken when making the second bigger 19" EPP build.. the build method is the same for both.. the build was later simplified, with a simple layered spline and revised for better stiffening, plus a corrected shape step line..
please take a look at, and note the new revised step lines..

Dihedral angle ..the target is 20 degrees, but somehow my building hasn't achieved this, I must have flattened mine out as I stuck it all together... start with the 20* fold down but don't worry if you loose some... my first 3mm depron build flew at 16...my EPP build is only 12..My flying buddies small version is at 20.... and my latest 24" one was started with a 25* fold but has ended at 20...
So its not critical.. we havnt noticed any significant difference in flights, they are all easy... and capable...

NOTE.... the original straight across KF steps were not the best for keeping the rear of the wing stiff.... the later revised step shape is best ..see post 4... and combined with a simple spline its now perfect
Last edited by davereap; Jun 23, 2016 at 12:43 AM.
Feb 16, 2014, 02:32 AM
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A video of the small one...
PP1 paper plane scale up... a really good flier with very fast responses .. its capable of high speed and wild aerobatics, so much so that I am having to lower the rates to fly it...

at the slow speed end its just the opposite , with its dihedral its very stable and easy ...using low power and low rates it floats around nicely ..
my buddy loves it , he prefers the nice and easy fliers and this does the job well

.
PP1 Maiden flight (4 min 59 sec)
Last edited by davereap; Feb 16, 2014 at 03:10 AM.
Feb 16, 2014, 02:36 AM
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here are the larger 19" sizes lines , the sketchup file and a pdf for the larger version

to resize this use the tape measure tool in sketchup and go across the span.. enter the new span in the measurements box and ok the resize

EDIT I have ended up with a 17" EPP build using 9mm foam as being the optimum for indoor flight.. a 17" fitted with a 17gm hyperon z1705-14 and a 8x4.3gws prop is a very good setup... or 2211-1700 or 2204-14t.. all motor in the 17-19gm range..
Last edited by davereap; Jun 20, 2016 at 02:32 AM.
Feb 16, 2014, 02:54 AM
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16" setup 3mm depron build or 5mm EPP build

1811-2900 kv motor on 2s... 300-500 lipo.. now flown mostly on a 500 and a 1000 2s lipo for longer flights... this model easily handles the bigger battery
GWS 6x3 prop..
6A ESC... micro orange RX with 2gm servos for the lightest setup ..micro plugs and sockets.. which are still working fine after a years bashing about
or
any light weight RX standard pins, with 4.3gm servos standard plugs..

AUW 115 gms with a 300 lipo for a 2.7ozsqft loading
Last edited by davereap; Apr 04, 2015 at 12:21 AM.
Feb 16, 2014, 02:58 AM
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19.5" Setup 5mm EPP build

robot birds 15gm 2300kv motor or similar and up to a blue wonder 1700kv
GWS 8x4.3 prop
12A ESC..
standard orange 6ch RX ..
or http://robotbirds.com/catalog/produc...oducts_id=5883
3x 5gm servos.. all fairly light gear

AUW 6.8oz with a 500 2s lipo for a 3.2ozsqft loading..
Last edited by davereap; May 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM.
Feb 16, 2014, 04:48 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Good One Dave !!!
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Feb 17, 2014, 09:36 AM
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Nice Dave. I was thinking about this exact and last week. When I a boy I had bunk beds and one of those hang down tile roofs above it. That was where I kept my paper airplane hanger. Anyhow last week while outside with the kids I was trying decide what would be a good trainer that would be easy to fly and could handle hitting the ground. I think you nailed it, I will get one flying this spring and see how the kids like it
Feb 18, 2014, 02:32 AM
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Fly it on low power with reduced control movements and its slow, very stable and easy to fly ..
The small one , I first built, is for indoors... for outside and training go bigger, go up to a 20-22 inch span using 6mm depron.. Use a Blue Wonder 1300kv with 3s or a 1700kv with 2s or any other similarly cheap motor up to about 100W with a 12A esc and 5gm servos..
Bigger always results in a more docile model, so you can go as big as you fancy... however going bigger requires slightly more expense on the build and on the gear.. so for training I would keep it as cheap as possible..

The other simple fun model I similarly recommend for learning on is a Nutball , again build at 24", that also is also very stable and easy at low speeds and low movements.. the nutball is simpler, using 3 ch, rudder elevator and motor ..the PP1 uses all the 4 channels so gets you used to having both ailerons and rudder to steer with..
I love the nutball but I think the PP1 from my point of view has it beat, better fast rolls and easier hover .... neither will knife edge easily...

and later powered up a bit both can be highly aerobatic
Last edited by davereap; May 26, 2015 at 11:01 AM.
Feb 18, 2014, 10:16 PM
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here is the lines plan for a 24" size.. I thought it would be suited for blue wonder motors or similar, something up to and around the 100W size...but....
EDIT I well overpowered mine..lol with an axi 2208-34 motor that was going spare.. flown on 3s with a 9x5 prop its great
don't be frightened of using a bigger motor , the throttle will control all the extra power... more power is more fun.... lol
Last edited by davereap; Jun 23, 2016 at 12:51 AM.
Mar 03, 2014, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
here is the lines plan for a 24" size.. its suited for blue wonder motors or similar, something up to and around the 100W size
Thank you dave for another grate thread
Mar 07, 2014, 01:51 AM
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The 19" version was flying well... then I hit a roof beam and the motor stopped working... I prefer the smaller version for indoor tight spaces.. that is the 16"er, it needs a lot less airspace...and being lighter feels nicer..
the 19 is ok in our hall, but with more power I got it up too high, too fast, and bang it was done for the night...

I had to swap the motor... it runs with no load but wont run with a prop on it.. I suspect the wiring might be only just holding together, a poor joint or such.. but cant be bothered to sort it at the moment...Ive too many motors ,swapping is easier..

EDIT while the 19 is flyable indoors it is a fraction too big for me .. I have settled on a 17" EPP version using a 17gm motor .. and a 16" EPP version that uses the 1811-2900 motor for my indoor sessions..
Last edited by davereap; Feb 17, 2015 at 02:08 AM.
Mar 14, 2014, 11:04 AM
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An indoor session had two of the smaller depron versions flying together..
watch in HD full screen for best views
.
Depron PP1 indoors (5 min 57 sec)
Mar 14, 2014, 12:28 PM
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EDIT out side the 19" EPP version is great... watch in HD full screen for best views

and now by early 2015.....Ive also made 24 and a 30" span versions.... both truly lovely fliers
.
Depron PP1 19 EPP version outdoors (8 min 5 sec)
Last edited by davereap; Feb 17, 2015 at 02:10 AM.
Mar 14, 2014, 01:04 PM
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Pretty cool Dave, may have to throw one together for nostalgia if anything


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