FliteTest Scratch Builds. (whose building them)? - Page 132 - RC Groups
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May 16, 2018, 05:58 PM
Scratch Builder
TrooperCooper's Avatar
OK so I went out to fly my baron today, but it seemed a bit sluggish power-wise. The battery was not fully charged, at 12.0 Volts, and it's 88 degrees. I am thinking that I am just used to flying in 30-60 degree weather. It seemed a bit sluggish on level flight, as well as not having the vertical performance that it used to. Is this just the temp, or electronics wearing out? Keep in mind, I am referencing this to my old bloody baron, which was not coated in wrapping paper and packaging tape, but had all internal paper still attached. Anyone wanna give their .02?
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May 16, 2018, 06:15 PM
60 years of RC flying
Daedalus66's Avatar

FliteTest Scratch Builds. (whose building them)?


LiPo batteries perform better in warmer weather, so thatís not it. Starting at 12.0 instead off 12.6v is going to take off a bit of the initial boost, but we usually spend most of the flight between about 12.2 and 11.7, so the performance should just feel normal.

The electronics donít wear out (they just fail!) but the motor bearings certainly decline with age.

The biggest factor in diminished performance is usually a weak motor combined with a gain in weight. What does the new one weigh compared to the old one?

Looks very nice. I must try one.
Last edited by Daedalus66; May 16, 2018 at 06:23 PM.
May 16, 2018, 06:24 PM
Registered User
what motor are you running and with what prop. I've had this happen to motors that were overproped. you get a runaway condition that eventually let's the smokey out. the temp goes up , this effects the magnetic strength which in turn effects the Kv which goes up which then causes more current to be drawn which causes more heat etc.

If the magnets get too hot they get permantly damage, which can result in lost of performance.

Seen that happen with my pixxa box flier and an emax motor I had, changed to a larger prop, performance was great for a while then it wasn't so great, I swapped motors but it was too late, the windings already showed signs of overheating, it shorted out when I tried to use it on a smaller foamie.
May 16, 2018, 06:26 PM
Registered User
weight gain is defiantly going to effect perforamnce. it's surprising how little weight can make a big difference. I built an Ft mustang and used masking tape instead of packing tape (I use hk foam for building instead of foamboard) it flew but seemed to lack performance. I removed as much of the tape as I could. it left the airframe weak but it flew much better.
May 16, 2018, 07:54 PM
Scratch Builder
TrooperCooper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus66
LiPo batteries perform better in warmer weather, so thatís not it. Starting at 12.0 instead off 12.6v is going to take off a bit of the initial boost, but we usually spend most of the flight between about 12.2 and 11.7, so the performance should just feel normal.

The electronics donít wear out (they just fail!) but the motor bearings certainly decline with age.

The biggest factor in diminished performance is usually a weak motor combined with a gain in weight. What does the new one weigh compared to the old one?

Looks very nice. I must try one.
Yeah, I didnít figure it was the lipo. I figure it is the warm weather, making lift harder to make. Unfortunately, My scaleís battery went dead, so I have no way of knowing the weight, but I can compare that to the one on the Build website. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazsound
what motor are you running and with what prop. I've had this happen to motors that were overproped. you get a runaway condition that eventually let's the smokey out. the temp goes up , this effects the magnetic strength which in turn effects the Kv which goes up which then causes more current to be drawn which causes more heat etc.

If the magnets get too hot they get permantly damage, which can result in lost of performance.

Seen that happen with my pixxa box flier and an emax motor I had, changed to a larger prop, performance was great for a while then it wasn't so great, I swapped motors but it was too late, the windings already showed signs of overheating, it shorted out when I tried to use it on a smaller foamie.
I am running the stock Power pack C from FT. Emax BLheli 30A ESC, Emax GT2215-09 1180kv, with a 9*4.5E APC prop. Defenitely not overpropped, if anything underproped. The motor was not even warm after 30+ seconds of full throttle, so I think that rules out motor problems.

Come to think of it, I did have some issues with the esc after i tried the prop brake, which i guess overheated it and caused power loss to the motor. Could be the esc. Got an extra, will try that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazsound
weight gain is defiantly going to effect perforamnce. it's surprising how little weight can make a big difference. I built an Ft mustang and used masking tape instead of packing tape (I use hk foam for building instead of foamboard) it flew but seemed to lack performance. I removed as much of the tape as I could. it left the airframe weak but it flew much better.
This here is my WORST fear. I removed the paper from the fuselage intirior and the fuse doubler, lightening it a little, i hope it made up for the wrapping paper (very light and thin) printed iron cross graphics (printer paper, trimmed to graphics, also very light), and packaging tape (not reenforced, pretty flimsey by itself. I will test the AUW and compare to the FT article. Thanks


Thanks guys!!
May 16, 2018, 08:00 PM
Scratch Builder
TrooperCooper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus66
Looks very nice. I must try one.
Yes, everyone needs one! At least build one of Sponzís Baby Baron. 60% the size, same characteristics, even a bit faster.
May 18, 2018, 05:41 PM
Scratch Builder
TrooperCooper's Avatar
Ok, so I just finished decaling up my baby baron, using the same gift wrap paper as my bloody baron, just without the layer of packing tape, here are some pics, both included for reference.


Prayers to those in Texas and Hawaii today.
May 19, 2018, 01:20 AM
Registered User
very nice
May 19, 2018, 09:33 AM
Scratch Builder
TrooperCooper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33joe
very nice
Thanks. Just waiting on some electronics. Anyone think that a 9g servo will work? It calls for 5g, and 9 may be a bit overkill, but i worry about the weight, and dont wanna order 5g servos.

Also, my full sized Baron weighs in at a whopping 15.3 oz. The reccommended weight from FT was 10.7. I still dont think this should be much of a problem. Might go to Hobbytown tomorrow, and might pick up a few props to test out on it. Maybe 9*6 or 10*5. Maybe even a speed prop.
Last edited by TrooperCooper; May 19, 2018 at 09:41 PM.
May 20, 2018, 01:16 PM
Scratch Builder
TrooperCooper's Avatar
Did some modifications to the power pod, added a lighter X6R reciever, with outer shell removed, as opposed to the overkill X8R. Saved me about 3 oz of weight.
May 24, 2018, 07:48 PM
Registered User
XDmToter's Avatar
I've built a couple of DZ1SFB's Racewings, which is a very similar plane to the FliteTest Arrow. One for FPV and the other for Night flying:






The SuperBee:



The Mini-Guinea scaled up 130% (to accommodate the additional thickness of ModelPlaneFoam):




I also have a Sparrow, but I could not find any pictures, and I don't feel like walking out to the garage.
Yesterday, 03:28 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by XDmToter
I've built a couple of DZ1SFB's Racewings, which is a very similar plane to the FliteTest Arrow. One for FPV and the other for Night flying:






The SuperBee:



The Mini-Guinea scaled up 130% (to accommodate the additional thickness of ModelPlaneFoam):




I also have a Sparrow, but I could not find any pictures, and I don't feel like walking out to the garage.
wow how you covering your foam, i can never get a nice finish... although i am using hobbykings cheap coloured packing tape
Yesterday, 04:28 AM
Danish? Don't U eat that??
DKChris's Avatar
Looks like a combination of packing tape and a suitable mix of a proper amount of throughness and flair to me.....and maybe some effort in finding/picking some good tape products.

Do you by any chance tack/shrink the tape down with a covering iron, XDmToter?
Today, 01:02 AM
Registered User
XDmToter's Avatar
Thank You! That is just some cheap packing tape that I picked up from a local dollar store. And Yes; I do use a covering iron when applying it. The heat allows the tape to stretch around compound curves and it activates the adhesive for better adhesion to the foam.
I am using ModelPlaneFoam, so no paper to contend with. And the additional thickness of MPF is why I usually build FT designs at around 120 - 130% scale. I still use their A and B folds, so I cover one side with packing tape before I remove the foam from the fold line, then iron it on after it's all glued up.
Today, 01:15 AM
Registered User
XDmToter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrooperCooper
OK so I went out to fly my baron today, but it seemed a bit sluggish power-wise. The battery was not fully charged, at 12.0 Volts, and it's 88 degrees. I am thinking that I am just used to flying in 30-60 degree weather. It seemed a bit sluggish on level flight, as well as not having the vertical performance that it used to. Is this just the temp, or electronics wearing out? Keep in mind, I am referencing this to my old bloody baron, which was not coated in wrapping paper and packaging tape, but had all internal paper still attached. Anyone wanna give their .02?
I had a plane once (the Alpha Jet by FRCFoamies over on RCPowers.com) that would only do a vertical takeoff in the winter. Once the temps got above 60F or so it just didn't have enough thrust for a vertical takeoff. I attributed this to the fact that cold air is denser, so the prop was actually moving more air and generating more thrust in the winter.


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