GyrOne (New) - Page 3 - RC Groups
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Mar 14, 2016, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid175

On the trainer suggestions, I've been looking around. It looks like there are a lot more options in your part of the world with regards to autogyros than we have here in the States. One that I did find that looks good to me anyway was something called a Scout. It's a tractor design.

Here's the web site: http://www.flyingbalsa.com/Scout-RC-Autogyro-Kit-p81

Please let me know what you think. Anything you can offer is greatly appreciated. You've already be a big help and it's very much appreciated.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

+1 on all the advice here.

The Scout is an excellent first kit. It is cheap and very complete. I came into autogyros the same as you with a heli and fixed wing background. I started with a really nice design but smacked it a few times sort of understanding but not properly applying what I needed to know.

I bought a Scout and spent many hours on here reading and watching videos. The Scout is where I really learned to fly. It is ridiculously durable and I have cartwheeled it on takeoff several times and tipped over more times than I can count. While the blades look a bit frazzled I have yet to break anything on it. I have always just picked it up, straightened the blades, and taken off again. Once I learned to fly the Scout, my first project was suddenly successful too. And my next.

The best part is once you progress, the Scout is quite nimble and a lot of fun.

Bryan
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Mar 14, 2016, 05:34 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTradioman
Re the blades on the GO, the issue with them is that they are fixed in the holder so far they touch the ground they will break off. Nearly all model gyro blades are held with one bolt to allow the blade to swivel.
Maybe Jock can jump in here as he has a GO.

PS
I am sure may be aware, but the manufacturer of the GO closed the factory in Dec 2015 so there are no further kits being made. However there is a chap on here selling up some spares including blades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulB
My Tuppence worth is to agree 1000% with Tim and Mr. 106 (sorry, don’t know your first name).

A cheap beater to use and abuse is the way to go. I come from pretty much the same background as you (and the other guys), 30 odd years fixed wing and 25 helicopter but to be honest I was kind of ‘if it will fly I can fly it’.

That said, they really are great fun and do add another dimension, some of my FBs claim that I am a bit of a hooligan when flying (me???? Never ) but when I am playing with my AGs nice controlled flight is defiantly the order of the day. Low and slow chugging bye, low flat turns, lovely……

Paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by 106flyer
Wise words from all , I don't mean you can't do it but yo start the risk is higher until you get the knack... Once you do that you won't stop smiling

I would suggest you put the G1 to one side, build something simple , cheap and bounces then give it a go.. If you have some arrivals it will be simple to repair and by making mistakes inc orientation you will learn quickest

Once sorted then get the G1 out and go enjoy yourself. Once thing I have seen would be change the blade mounting from 2 bolts rigid to a single bolt and a sacrificial nylon shear pin.. this should save the blades in the event of a topple over...

Kept at it ....

Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoxey
+1 on all the advice here.

The Scout is an excellent first kit. It is cheap and very complete. I came into autogyros the same as you with a heli and fixed wing background. I started with a really nice design but smacked it a few times sort of understanding but not properly applying what I needed to know.

I bought a Scout and spent many hours on here reading and watching videos. The Scout is where I really learned to fly. It is ridiculously durable and I have cartwheeled it on takeoff several times and tipped over more times than I can count. While the blades look a bit frazzled I have yet to break anything on it. I have always just picked it up, straightened the blades, and taken off again. Once I learned to fly the Scout, my first project was suddenly successful too. And my next.

The best part is once you progress, the Scout is quite nimble and a lot of fun.

Bryan
Gentlemen!

First, thank you all so much for the advise and encouragement. As much as I'd love to get the G1 in the air, I'll hold off for the time being. I think I will go with the Scout in this case. I'm more comfortable with balsa.

Tim, I didn't know the factory had shut down completely. It figures! The web site shows the two larger models available on special order and looks like the GyrOne is still available for immediate purchase. I also found the G1 listed at the Canadian hobby shop I mentioned earlier and also at a shop in England, www.ladbrokehobbies.co.uk. The Canadian store doesn't show repair parts on their web site but confirmed that they have most parts available, except rotor blades, which they expect to have more soon? Ladbroke lists rotor blades on their web site as being in stock at this time so who knows. We'll see. I suppose I'm not surprised by all this. Most of the helicopters I've flown for years aren't available any more and parts are getting harder to find. It hasn't been an issue for me yet. The sign of the times I suppose.

Steve (106flyer), I'm intrigued by your suggestion of modifying the GyrOne blades to a single bolt retention system with nylon sheer pin?? I'd be very interested in knowing how that was done. I think I've got the idea in my head on what you're talking about. I would imagine it would take some modification to the hub bar itself to allow the blades to swing back on impact. As it is, on my model anyway, the blades are held very securely in the hub bar even if the outer bolt were replaced with a sheer pin. Has anyone posted pictures of this modification?

For now, I'll just take it one step at a time and let you folks know how I'm doing. I'm sure I'll have more questions as things progress.

Thanks again, and Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 14, 2016, 05:48 PM
Registered User
106flyer's Avatar
An aluminium strip was fitted to the existing head channel to move the blade pivot out to clear the channel and then blade bolted to this plate

Steve
Mar 15, 2016, 02:42 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
Steve is 100% on this, both Jock and John Greenfield did this. The thing is that there is so much inertia in the blades on landing, for example, if the gyro is slightly off wind it can topple over causing a blade strike to the ground.
Mar 16, 2016, 02:28 PM
Fire Marshall Bill
My guess is a mistranslated word meaning combustion, but funny non the less
I had a kite I bought at an airshow that was basically a heli airframe with fixed pitch rotor that flew via autorotation. It was fun and quite loud.
Mar 16, 2016, 11:58 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by 106flyer
An aluminium strip was fitted to the existing head channel to move the blade pivot out to clear the channel and then blade bolted to this plate

Steve
That must be some chunk of aluminium. Looking at my rotor hub, I'd have to lift the blades a significant distance for them to clear the side of the hub plate at the inner retention bolts. Do you know whether or not they modified the hub itself in that regard? I'd love to see some pictures of this if you know of any around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTradioman
Steve is 100% on this, both Jock and John Greenfield did this. The thing is that there is so much inertia in the blades on landing, for example, if the gyro is slightly off wind it can topple over causing a blade strike to the ground.
I can believe that Tim. I was quite surprised at the weight of the blades that came with my kit. I'm sure it helps with rotor stability in the air but somethings going to give if they make contact with any significant object, like the ground, at anything close to flight rpms. I'd imagine that they won't even have to be close to flight rpms to do damage so this is a modification I'd like to check into.

I appreciate it being brought up.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 17, 2016, 12:48 PM
Registered User
I done a little drawing for ya... Its just a strip to move it outwards to clear the channel. Small piece 1/8" AL should do the trick, on one of my heads I have it made from GF for a little more crash resistance, hahah

Hopefully we are all talking about the same thing
Mar 17, 2016, 02:41 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadandrews
I done a little drawing for ya... Its just a strip to move it outwards to clear the channel. Small piece 1/8" AL should do the trick, on one of my heads I have it made from GF for a little more crash resistance, hahah

Hopefully we are all talking about the same thing
Thanks Chad, I really appreciate the effort. That makes a lot more sense. I was thinking more of lifting the blade up as apposed to shifting it outward. It definitely gives me something more to think about. First thing though, is to get something a bit more suitable to learn on, then come back to what I really want to fly.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 17, 2016, 05:59 PM
Registered User
106flyer's Avatar
Yep that's it but the one o saw had 2 new outer holes with one being for a nylon shear pin.

With both in place the blade is held rigid and cannot pivot like the original blade set up.

If the model tips over then the shear pin snaps and allow the blade to pivot relative to the head to try and save the blade root and blade

Steve
Mar 17, 2016, 06:44 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by 106flyer
Yep that's it but the one o saw had 2 new outer holes with one being for a nylon shear pin.

With both in place the blade is held rigid and cannot pivot like the original blade set up.

If the model tips over then the shear pin snaps and allow the blade to pivot relative to the head to try and save the blade root and blade

Steve
Agreed, Steve. I'm looking at my rotor system, I've got the blades mounted to the hub bar. I love the simplicity of this thing compared to a helicopter. Anyway, I like what Chad drew up which would bring the inner factory mounting bolt to the outer hole on the rotor hub. The new outer hole would definitely get the nylon sheer bolt. I'm assuming the factory mounting bolts in the blade can be tapped out?? I'm not sure, on my setup at least, that the rotor would pivot cleanly, doing it Chad's way. The corners at the root end of the blade would have to be rounded over as they're squared off right now. Otherwise, they'd get crimped or crunched up in the process. I don't think it would compromise the blades structurally but it might look weird. Doing what you're proposing would extend the blade beyond the end of the factory hub so what I mentioned above wouldn't be an issue. One thing that came to mind while typing all this up is, the rigidity of the rotor system. It seems to me that extending the blade out too far beyond the rotor hub might make it prone to twisting on the extension. I hope I'm making sense with that but what I'm thinking here is that it could lead to blade tracking errors that might have the potential to cause all kinds of problem in the air, leading to not good things when it gets back to the ground? I'm also wondering about increasing the rotor diameter by that much?

Also, since I've got you folks here, I'd like another opinion. The original information I found on this model recommended a .40 size 2-stroke or equivalent. Several of the videos I found on the bird showed it flying with a 4-stroke and I "really" like 4-strokes so that's what I bought. My general experience going from 2-stroke to 4-stroke has been to up the engine displacement by a 10. The model likes a 40 size 2-stroke, then a 50 size 4-stroke should do nicely. Based on that, I bought a Saito 56 for my G1. Today, I found one of Jock's videos on YouTube where he's doing some trim flights with a 4-stroke engine. This was the predecessor to the model I've got. Anyway, in the conversation attached to the video, people were asking which engine and he said it was a 70 size engine. Now I'm wondering if I went too small on the 4-stroke engine here? The model in the video performed well but it didn't appear to be what I'd call overpowered. I'd appreciate any opinions you'd care to offer on that.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 18, 2016, 03:25 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
Well I don't think tracking is the same issue with gyros as it is with a Heli. Simply it's the difference between driven and driving. If the plate is stiff enough it would be OK. After all you are not twisting the blades to give lift or directional control, just tilting the head. The bigger issue is static and dynamic balance of the blades. On the fixed head gyros like the DAG it was common to put tip weights on the blades to increase inertia (stored energy). I know from experience that a badly balanced blade set can rob the model of lift plus it looks awful with all the extremities flapping around😀. In fact I remember that with Graham's HobbyKing AC10 and Rich's Chinese AC10 tip weights where add to smooth the flight out and greatly improve the handling characteristics (amongst many many other mods).
As for the motor size I cannot comment much as I don't run IC on gyros but from a pure power perspective I find that you want a set up that gives a lot of thrust from low down the Rev range. You want to run a coarse pitch prop so need a motor with lots of torque. For example on my RPG i am running an eMax GT 2826/06 860kv on 4s with a 14x8 prop. The model weighs just over 5lb wet and has a 3 blade set up of 720mm X 60m X 6mm blades with a 1.6 mm shim 6 mm from the bolt hole. ( it's a MacDonald coffee stirrer ). I find that I very rarely use full throttle but I am always on and off the throttle so need instant power and thrust. Why not message Jock and ask why he used a 70? My guess is because he had one!
Mar 18, 2016, 05:17 AM
Registered User
I just changed out myOS LA46 to an OS 52 S four stroke. Even though the LA puts out more hp according to the spec the gyro likes ( and me too) the four stroke better. It has more low end punch. I am not looking to fly fast, i just want a nice slow controlled flight. I am not a very good pilot so the slower the better. Here is a video of my lazy flying style which is well suited for the little four stroke. I wont break any performance records with it. Regarding blade weight, my blades are solid pine and they work fine. Little slow to spin up, but with a prerotator my take offs are always just some feet if I want them to be. I posted this video in another thread too, sorry BigT, I am just proud after a year of experimenting I got this thing to work!

Oh my rig has a 65" rotor diameter, AUW is over 6 lbs at the moment. It will go up a tad when I get the body finished

Woody OS52FS nice flight (2 min 16 sec)
Mar 18, 2016, 08:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadandrews
I just changed out myOS LA46 to an OS 52 S four stroke. Even though the LA puts out more hp according to the spec the gyro likes ( and me too) the four stroke better. It has more low end punch. I am not looking to fly fast, i just want a nice slow controlled flight. I am not a very good pilot so the slower the better. Here is a video of my lazy flying style which is well suited for the little four stroke. I wont break any performance records with it. Regarding blade weight, my blades are solid pine and they work fine. Little slow to spin up, but with a prerotator my take offs are always just some feet if I want them to be. I posted this video in another thread too, sorry BigT, I am just proud after a year of experimenting I got this thing to work!

Oh my rig has a 65" rotor diameter, AUW is over 6 lbs at the moment. It will go up a tad when I get the body finished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vibA8ucgOWU
Thanks Chad, for posting the video, that's very cool! Pun intended. This ol boy from Texas wouldn't know what to do with all that white stuff. The only time I've been in that much snow was when we were on a ski trip!

Only question I have is, "that's over 6 lbs??" Doesn't look like there's enough aircraft there to make 2 lbs! Looks can definitely be deceiving. Of course, I haven't tried to weigh my GyrOne yet.

Very nice flight by the way. I commend your orientation skills with so little structure to focus on, and on such a grey day! I look forward to getting that good.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

Edit: I was wondering, do you use some kind of transmitter mit? My hands would be freezing in those kinds of temps.
Last edited by Intrepid175; Mar 18, 2016 at 09:29 PM.
Mar 19, 2016, 03:32 AM
Registered User
Hahaha, yep indeed it gets cool, was -10 there that morning, 14 deg in your language. You'll be surprised when you get all the bits and bobs on there, the weight starts adding up fast, and yeah its deceiving, remember my rotor diameter is nearly a 6 foot span.

Nope no transmitter mit and no gloves, can't fly with bulky gloves on. Just used to the weather I guess, 'ol Newfie boys are tough, hahaha. Thats what were called and call our selves , Newfies. Although i'll admit sometimes i have to put my hands in my jacket so i can feel my fingers again!! hahahaha
Mar 19, 2016, 04:58 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadandrews
I just changed out myOS LA46 to an OS 52 S four stroke. Even though the LA puts out more hp according to the spec the gyro likes ( and me too) the four stroke better. It has more low end punch. I am not looking to fly fast, i just want a nice slow controlled flight. I am not a very good pilot so the slower the better. Here is a video of my lazy flying style which is well suited for the little four stroke. I wont break any performance records with it. Regarding blade weight, my blades are solid pine and they work fine. Little slow to spin up, but with a prerotator my take offs are always just some feet if I want them to be. I posted this video in another thread too, sorry BigT, I am just proud after a year of experimenting I got this thing to work!

Oh my rig has a 65" rotor diameter, AUW is over 6 lbs at the moment. It will go up a tad when I get the body finished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vibA8ucgOWU
Chad, Very nice work you are doing with your scratch build. I am wanting to build a gyro using a 15 or 20cc gas engine. Would you mind telling me what kind and size of wood you used for the frame of yours? I have some nice straight grain yellow poplar to use if it would work. Also some sassafrass that would be a little lighter.
Jimmy


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