GyrOne (New) - Page 2 - RC Groups
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Mar 11, 2016, 08:40 PM
Registered User
Hi Folks,

It's been about a year, let's try reviving this one again. I just got hold of one of these a week ago or so. Found it through www.icare-icarus.com out of Boucherville, QC, CA. They were very pleasent to work with and answered a number of questions via email before I placed the order. I'm still in the building phase, taking my time and gathering the electronics I'll need to make it all work. I'm pleased with the quality of the materials although the build instructions aren't the most comprehensive I've ever seen but the pictures are decent and it's pretty obvious what goes where when putting things together. The main structure of this thing is about as simple as any aircraft you'll ever assemble. There simply isn't that much to it.

I'm not the biggest fan of pure electrics, yet, so I decided to go with a glo engine. I have seen videos of the older version of this aircraft with a 4-stroke glo engine on it and since I'm a fan of 4-stroke engines, that's what I went with. I've got a Saito FA56 on the bird. I must say, there's not a lot of room between the end of the crankshaft and the vertical stabilizer but it'll work. If I ever need to change the prop, the engine will have to come off first, that's how close it is. It was $18 US extra for the motor mount for this engine. The interesting thing is, it comes with a pull starter adapter that you wind a string around for starting the engine since there's no way to put an electric starter on the engine directly. It's kind of like what your great grandfather used to start the engine on his fishing boat, way back when! I'm curious to see how well that works out. This model is bigger than I expected it to be. I don't really know why. I had read the specs on the web for it but now that I've got it in front of me, it's makes quite a presence sitting there on the table. The rotor blades are built a bit different from the model helicopter rotor blades I'm used to dealing with. They seem rather simple by comparison but appear to be well made and are quite heavy. I checked the weight and span wise CG of the blades. The CG was spot on between the two and according to my gram scale, are within 0 .05 grams of each other in weight. The one being 295.4 grams and the other came in at 295.35 grams. I've got a Bergen Gasser EB helicopter with 810 blades on it that weight around 270 grams. I was really surprised when these came in heavier. I can live with that! I'm still waiting on some of the flight servos I ordered to come in. I had one of them backordered but am expecting that by the end of the month. That'll allow me to take my time of the more tedious stuff, like cutting out, gluing together, and painting the "pilot" for this thing. It's been a long time since I've done any of that kind of work. I just hope I don't embarrass myself too much with that part of it. We'll see!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
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Mar 12, 2016, 03:00 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
Have you flown a model Autogyro before?
Mar 12, 2016, 12:35 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTradioman
Have you flown a model Autogyro before?
Hi BigT,

Not successfully. I've been flying radio controlled aircraft since 1982. I started with helicopters, learned to hover, then transitioned to fixed wing to learn the control reversal issues when the model is pointed at me, and returned to helicopters. I'm not a hard core aerobatic pilot but I'm competent otherwise with both helicopters and fixed wing airplanes.

I flew Schluter helicopters for years back in the 1980's and early 1990's and when they introduced their "Whopper" autogyro, I couldn't resist. Needless to say, my efforts weren't very fruitful. For one thing, it was a lead sled, and another, the .60 engine size they recommended was not exactly overpowered. I'm sure I made other mistakes at the time as well. I only got it in the air a couple of times and could never keep it there. It was very frustrating.

Still, I've always had an interest in rotorcraft and the autogyro is an intriguing aircraft. I have a private pilots license and have always wanted to add a rotorcraft rating to that. I looked into experimental (home built) autogyros back in the mid to late 1990's and learned a lot about them. I never followed through with that for a number of reasons but I've still got in interest in them. When I discovered the GyrOne Pilot, I couldn't resist. I don't have any illusions about this. I understand that autogyros aren't airplanes and they're not helicopters. They have their own set of rules and I'd better abide by them but I understand a lot more about the dynamics of gyro flight than I did before and I'm a lot more advanced in my flight skills than I was back in the 90's so I'm cautiously hopeful that I can pull this off. It's going to be an adventure either way!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Last edited by Intrepid175; Mar 12, 2016 at 12:53 PM.
Mar 13, 2016, 03:33 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar

GyrOne (New)


Steve, you are correct, model gyros do not fly like any other radio controlled model. Certainly having Heli stick time will help a bit with orientation. However the best advice I can give you is to build the GyrOne and leave it in the hanger until you have a few hours on something easier to fly. It's just too much money to stuff up.
I would start with one of Rich Harris's designs, such as the Atom, Burkey, Whippit. Then go on to the Revolver which is a pusher and handles more like the GyrOne but is half the price. Or the Steve Jones AC20 which is a free download on here.

Another good basic trainer is the the late Tom Wrights Cranefly. That got so many of us into flying Gyro.

Plans and parts for those models can be had from www.coolwind.co.uk.

Plan for the AC20
Auto Skunkworks - AC20 EPP build
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2340262
Mar 13, 2016, 03:34 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar

GyrOne (New)


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTradioman
Steve, you are correct, model gyros do not fly like any other radio controlled model. Certainly having Heli stick time will help a bit with orientation. However the best advice I can give you is to build the GyrOne and leave it in the hanger until you have a few hours on something easier to fly. It's just too much money to stuff up.
I would start with one of Rich Harris's designs, such as the Atom, Burkey, Whippit. Then go on to the Revolver which is a pusher and handles more like the GyrOne but is half the price. Or the Steve Jones AC10 which is a free download on here.

Another good basic trainer is the the late Tom Wrights Cranefly. That got so many of us into flying Gyro.

Plans and parts for those models can be had from www.coolwind.co.uk.

Hope you don't take offence for the advice, it's just we all want success and not failure.
Another good slow flying and stable gyro is Rich Elliot's Sycamore.
Regards
Tim A
Last edited by BigTradioman; Mar 13, 2016 at 04:10 AM.
Mar 13, 2016, 08:25 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTradioman
Hope you don't take offence for the advice, it's just we all want success and not failure.
Another good slow flying and stable gyro is Rich Elliot's Sycamore.
Regards
Tim A
Hi Tim,

Take offence? Are you kidding me?

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I've been reading some of your comments in other conversations. One of which mentioned something to the effect that experienced airplane and helicopter pilots don't usually do that well with autogyros to begin with. That one got me thinking! My biggest concern is not knowing what to expect with setups and trim. I haven't had that problem in a bunch of years with airplanes and helicopters. I will certainly look into the models you mentioned. I might take a little pride swallowing but that won't be the first time for me!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 13, 2016, 10:33 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid175
My biggest concern is not knowing what to expect with setups and trim. I haven't had that problem in a bunch of years with airplanes and helicopters. I will certainly look into the models you mentioned. I might take a little pride swallowing but that won't be the first time for me!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
I agree with that, after over 50 years of modelling I would still go back on the buddy lead if I though I could learn something.

My learning curve on gyro's was typical from what i have now seen over the last 3 years. I started from a public show aerobatic level. My first gyro was an RPG. I followed the thread exactly and had exactly the correct settings according to the build thread. The first flight was a complete and utter failure. The reason was I had no one standing next to me to advise and tweak. Since then a lot has been written on how to make those first baby steps.

Assuming that the model is a basic trainer and has been built with all the right angles and dangles, the blades are balanced and shimmed as per plan, the next stage is to carry out a few hops. Completely the opposite to a non scale fixed wing test flight. Basic checks would be that all controls work the correct way round and that the hang angle is correct to plan, with the sticks and trims neutral the head has the correct back tilt and side tilt.

Next point the model into the wind, stand behind it, spin the rotor by hand as fast as you can, pull the ele back full, and SLOWLY SLOWLY add power steering into wind with the rudder (heli and scale pilots have the edge here), proceed forward into wind following on foot and you will see the blades spin up. Now, if you continue to hold the stick back and/or the wind is too strong the model well may flip back or to the side so slowly let the back stick off and increase the power. If there is sufficient lift the model will get light on the wheels and this is when you can get an idea of what trims are needed to achieve some sort of control. Slowly close the throttle and when the wheels touch, push in full down to kill the rotor lift. Sounds O so Simple :-().

If the model flips left the chances are the rotor was not up to speed. If the rotor was a blur but there was no lift then there is too much shim. If the rotor wont come up to speed then there was insufficient shim. If the model is a tractor and leaps off the ground and goes vertical the chances are the hang angle was insufficient so giving the same effect as a rearward cog. If you have to hold up ele in to get the wheels up and the rotor is up to speed then it is nose heavy.

Tractors are easier to get up than pushers by about 75% in my experience.

Keep doing small hops until you can hop and land without having to over correct, you are then ready for the first circuit. Also practice taxiing around in circles with the stick held back. Thats a life saver for thos days when the wind is light!

My tip for that is to position the model at the end of the strip, you stand halfway down the strip at about ROG point (V1) , taxi past yourself to lift off and then make a slow left turn before gaining too much height. Opposite to fixed wing and like heli height is not always your best Pal with gyro's. Dont let it get too far away, that way lurks disorientation and certain doom! keep the circuit small and left hand, be prepared to land after the first circuit and remember that if the model is set up well it will climb on full throttle. If you try and put forward stick in on full throttle it will just stop flying and fall out the sky.
There are some excellent videos out there on you tube, i'll sort some out for you.
Tim
Mar 13, 2016, 03:29 PM
Registered User
106flyer's Avatar
My advise is simple , no matter how much previous experience on anything .... Get help and don't go it alone

If you do there will be 2 outcomes... If your gifted or lucky it will fly and you will enjoy it or ... You will have another kit on your hands...

Good luck
Mar 13, 2016, 05:08 PM
Registered User
[QUOTE=Intrepid175;34247116]Hi Tim,

Take offence? Are you kidding me?

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I've been reading some of your comments in other conversations. One of which mentioned something to the effect that experienced airplane and helicopter pilots don't usually do that well with autogyros to begin with. That one got me thinking! My biggest concern is not knowing what to expect with setups and trim. I haven't had that problem in a bunch of years with airplanes and helicopters. I will certainly look into the models you mentioned. I might take a little pride swallowing but that won't be the first time for me! ; ]

I'm one of the newest gyro nuts on here. These guys are right. If you take your time and set up one of the trainers as the plans. Do the short hops, and build your skills on each short flight. With your background you will be good. The light trainers will take a lot of bumps. I have built 3 trainers the Whippit, Burgy, and the Scout. I like the Whippit the best. The one I am flying now is my 3rd. Don't give up it will not take long and it is more fun then chasing rabbits.

Jimmy
Mar 13, 2016, 07:24 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by 106flyer
My advise is simple , no matter how much previous experience on anything .... Get help and don't go it alone

If you do there will be 2 outcomes... If your gifted or lucky it will fly and you will enjoy it or ... You will have another kit on your hands...

Good luck
Thanks! That's one of the reasons I posted on this forum. Unfortunately, there aren't any gyro pilots around my part of the world that I know of. I've seen a couple of posts from others who appear to be in Texas but the one town I recognized was about a five hour drive away. I am going to take it slow though!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 13, 2016, 09:08 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTradioman
I agree with that, after over 50 years of modelling I would still go back on the buddy lead if I though I could learn something.

My learning curve on gyro's was typical from what i have now seen over the last 3 years. I started from a public show aerobatic level. My first gyro was an RPG. I followed the thread exactly and had exactly the correct settings according to the build thread. The first flight was a complete and utter failure. The reason was I had no one standing next to me to advise and tweak. Since then a lot has been written on how to make those first baby steps.

Assuming that the model is a basic trainer and has been built with all the right angles and dangles, the blades are balanced and shimmed as per plan, the next stage is to carry out a few hops. Completely the opposite to a non scale fixed wing test flight. Basic checks would be that all controls work the correct way round and that the hang angle is correct to plan, with the sticks and trims neutral the head has the correct back tilt and side tilt.

Next point the model into the wind, stand behind it, spin the rotor by hand as fast as you can, pull the ele back full, and SLOWLY SLOWLY add power steering into wind with the rudder (heli and scale pilots have the edge here), proceed forward into wind following on foot and you will see the blades spin up. Now, if you continue to hold the stick back and/or the wind is too strong the model well may flip back or to the side so slowly let the back stick off and increase the power. If there is sufficient lift the model will get light on the wheels and this is when you can get an idea of what trims are needed to achieve some sort of control. Slowly close the throttle and when the wheels touch, push in full down to kill the rotor lift. Sounds O so Simple :-().

If the model flips left the chances are the rotor was not up to speed. If the rotor was a blur but there was no lift then there is too much shim. If the rotor wont come up to speed then there was insufficient shim. If the model is a tractor and leaps off the ground and goes vertical the chances are the hang angle was insufficient so giving the same effect as a rearward cog. If you have to hold up ele in to get the wheels up and the rotor is up to speed then it is nose heavy.

Tractors are easier to get up than pushers by about 75% in my experience.

Keep doing small hops until you can hop and land without having to over correct, you are then ready for the first circuit. Also practice taxiing around in circles with the stick held back. Thats a life saver for thos days when the wind is light!

My tip for that is to position the model at the end of the strip, you stand halfway down the strip at about ROG point (V1) , taxi past yourself to lift off and then make a slow left turn before gaining too much height. Opposite to fixed wing and like heli height is not always your best Pal with gyro's. Dont let it get too far away, that way lurks disorientation and certain doom! keep the circuit small and left hand, be prepared to land after the first circuit and remember that if the model is set up well it will climb on full throttle. If you try and put forward stick in on full throttle it will just stop flying and fall out the sky.
There are some excellent videos out there on you tube, i'll sort some out for you.
Tim
Thanks Tim, that makes a lot of sense and confirms a number of things I was thinking I understood about this whole process. You made mention of "shimming" the rotor blades. I understand what you talking about there, adjusting the pitch angle (incidence) of the blades themselves. The instructions I have for the GyrOne don't say anything about that so I'm not sure if I need to worry about it in this case. The one thing the instructions do mention is using a straight edge to confirm alignment of the leading edge of the rotor blades with the rotor hub. It's showing there should be about a 2mm gap down the length of the blade. Mine has the 2mm gap at the root of the blade but that increases slightly as I measure farther out. Both blades are lagging slightly behind the direction of rotation but at least they appear to be the same on both sides. There is absolutely no room for adjustment on this setup as the blades are a very snug fit in the hub plate and use a two bolt mounting so I'm not sure how much I can do about this if it's critical. If you or anyone else has any thoughts on that, I'd appreciate hearing them.

On the trainer suggestions, I've been looking around. It looks like there are a lot more options in your part of the world with regards to autogyros than we have here in the States. One that I did find that looks good to me anyway was something called a Scout. It's a tractor design.

Here's the web site: http://www.flyingbalsa.com/Scout-RC-Autogyro-Kit-p81

Please let me know what you think. Anything you can offer is greatly appreciated. You've already be a big help and it's very much appreciated.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Mar 14, 2016, 02:55 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
The Scout is a very competent Trainer, as is the Humpback. They both use Aerobalsa blades which are good but take a bit of preparation. The humpback is easy to set up for the correct hang angle etc. I had 2 of those and they flew well. Between the Whippit and the Scoutn I would say the Whippit is the easiest to set up and fly and being made from EPP it bounces well! I understand it can be hard to get EPP in the USA but it can be made from Depron too.

This is another good model to try, sort of intermediate pusher. Plans attached




Re the blades on the GO, the issue with them is that they are fixed in the holder so far they touch the ground they will break off. Nearly all model gyro blades are held with one bolt to allow the blade to swivel.
Maybe Jock can jump in here as he has a GO.

PS
I am sure may be aware, but the manufacturer of the GO closed the factory in Dec 2015 so there are no further kits being made. However there is a chap on here selling up some spares including blades.
Last edited by BigTradioman; Mar 14, 2016 at 07:35 AM.
Mar 14, 2016, 08:42 AM
Mike's Ma Maaaaaaaaan
PaulB's Avatar
My Tuppence worth is to agree 1000% with Tim and Mr. 106 (sorry, don’t know your first name).

A cheap beater to use and abuse is the way to go. I come from pretty much the same background as you (and the other guys), 30 odd years fixed wing and 25 helicopter but to be honest I was kind of ‘if it will fly I can fly it’.
Then I tried Auto Gyros.
Then I knew that I was wrong.



Ok, not too bad really BUT, I started on the Monotwirl (Depron) with slightly mixed success (all my own fault) and then moved on to the Crane Fly. I crashed the Monotwirl a few times and the Crane needed a repair once which was not too painful BUT, I did have to learn a new skill set which surprised me!!
Yes, I did know how to use my rudder (probably spend at least 1/3 of a fixed wing flight in Knife edge and with helicopters, you know yourself). Yes, I did know how to use opposite aileron to keep the wings up (for years I spent probably 1/3 of my flying time on the slope). Last but not least, Yes, I did know that throttle controls height (helicopters???).
Despite all of this it still took a few months and quite a few flights before I was ‘connected’, You will know what I mean by this, the point when you stop thinking and just fly by instinct.
Another thing that really surprised me was orientation! Don’t know if you can remember back to when you were learning and you kept having those ‘what the is she doing now’ moments? Well get used to the idea of having them again….. Never have to think about what either a plank or a chopper is doing but had a few moments with Auto Gyros, really weird ‘cos one part of your brain is saying that you can’t be disorientated and another corner is screaming because you have no idea if she is going left or right. No idea why, cannot just be the shape and lack of wings because helicopters are very similar but many experienced pilots have reported similar experiences.

If you are a balsa basher the Crane is the way to go, prefer foam?? Whippit or Burky.

That said, they really are great fun and do add another dimension, some of my FBs claim that I am a bit of a hooligan when flying (me???? Never ) but when I am playing with my AGs nice controlled flight is defiantly the order of the day. Low and slow chugging bye, low flat turns, lovely……

Paul
Mar 14, 2016, 09:51 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
Hi Paul 106 is AKA Steve Jones.

Steve R, Here is a link to another UK Forum with useful build logs, trimming threads etc etc

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/threads.asp?t=354

BTW if you find a character calling himself MIA or Mario Arguello popping up on these threads, just ignore!
Last edited by BigTradioman; Mar 14, 2016 at 09:56 AM.
Mar 14, 2016, 01:16 PM
Registered User
106flyer's Avatar
Wise words from all , I don't mean you can't do it but yo start the risk is higher until you get the knack... Once you do that you won't stop smiling

I would suggest you put the G1 to one side, build something simple , cheap and bounces then give it a go.. If you have some arrivals it will be simple to repair and by making mistakes inc orientation you will learn quickest

Once sorted then get the G1 out and go enjoy yourself. Once thing I have seen would be change the blade mounting from 2 bolts rigid to a single bolt and a sacrificial nylon shear pin.. this should save the blades in the event of a topple over...

Kept at it ....

Steve


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