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Jan 12, 2014, 12:46 PM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Thanks for the mental support, AllThumbs,

ok guys, let´s stop jokin now. As you can see in the images, that´s no screenshots anymore! My mill runs for hours already. Taking a huffy little 0.8 mm cutter means that you´re not in a hurry but love quality.

Sorry for the pics´ poor quality. They´ve been taken by my mobile cam, since my camera met its maker. I will borrow my brother´s cam for this thread.


Greetings,

Chris
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Jan 13, 2014, 06:37 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2017, June 15-18th
eatond's Avatar
Hi Chris,
gotta love it when you have the plans transfered to actual wooden parts. Is that lite ply or regular? I never get such clean cuts on the lite ply I get. It always seems to chip.

Nice mill, looks like you have ball screws on the Z axis. What drives the X-axis?

Dan Eaton
Jan 13, 2014, 06:48 PM
Registered User
It would be like christmas with all those parts coming out of the machine!

Well done, It's looking awesome already! I would guess that assembly of the structure would go forwards very quickly with the way the parts have been designed.

Looking forward to seeing the ply get wet with some glue next

Thanks

dave
Jan 14, 2014, 02:30 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

yes this mill does a very good job! And everytime it coughs up a brand new plane it´s like christmas. What I mainly use for my projects is poplar plywood (approx. 0.35 gr/cm^3). I personally prefer that to birch air-ply. It is millable much easier. And density of 2mm air-ply is approx. 0,75 gr/cm^3. My designs are so strongly cross-linked, that poplar gives enough stiffness and solidity. Poplar can be milled three to four times faster than air-ply, at least that´s my experience.

Meanwhile the whole fuse stands vertical on its mounting frame. A fascinating aspect. The outlines of the Volksjäger are extraordinary.
I get the camera today, so you need to be patient, I´ll post some fotos soon.


Chris.
Last edited by chris-67; Jan 14, 2014 at 02:31 AM. Reason: typo
Jan 14, 2014, 02:48 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Dan,

I just forgot answering your questions reg. the mill.
The z-axis has a ball screw directly driven by the stepper on top. Two slide rails guide the z-hardware. The x-axis is driven by two motors connected and force-syncronized by a belt. x- and y-axis do not turn, they are standing still and the nuts are turned by the motors instead. That´s a quite interesting variant, preventing the ball screws to resonate or oscillate at higher speeds.

Because our German postal provider has got quite reasonable offers for 1200 mm x 600 mm x 600 mm packets all my plywood boards are tailored to 1180 mm x 580 mm, i.e. all the aircrafts´s pieces of the 3D draft are placed to a virtual plane of this size at the CAM work. The mill can do 1200 mm x 650 x 230 mm.

Yesterday night I drove 550 km for having a look at a new mill even stronger and faster than mine, for hard materials, too. I ordered it already, in 3 to 4 weeks I can pick it up there!

Chris.
Last edited by chris-67; Jan 14, 2014 at 02:55 AM. Reason: additional sentence
Jan 14, 2014, 02:17 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2017, June 15-18th
eatond's Avatar
Hi Chris,
I've milled canopy blanks from Poplar blocks but have never tried Poplar plywood. I'll have to get some and give it a try.

Very intersting drive method for the X-axis. If you could get a picture or two of that I would be very interested in seeing them.

Speaking of pictures, we all want to see the cut out parts. More pics please.

Dan Eaton
Jan 14, 2014, 03:59 PM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

here are the first pictures! I´ve only sticked the parts togehter, not applied any glue yet. Everything fits perfect so far. I must say: I like it!

Chris.
Last edited by chris-67; Jan 14, 2014 at 04:02 PM. Reason: one more pic
Jan 14, 2014, 07:47 PM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
Very cool..I see the scale deflection at the root!
Latest blog entry: In flight
Jan 14, 2014, 10:52 PM
Registered User
OHH WOW!!!!

That looks awesome christoph!!!

And a brilliant use of the waste material to locate all the formers! very impressed. I love making something out of nothing or scraps so fantastic bit of engineering there!!!

Yes downturn of the wing at the root is a very important feature. nice incorporation of it.

Can't wait to see more!

Thanks

dave
Jan 16, 2014, 04:08 PM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi all,

have been in the cellar for an hour. Glued the fuselage parts together and put some balsa pieces in place. Again I´m fascinated by the accuracy of fit, although not having expected anything else.

In the German RC-Network.de forum similar questions arised concerning the oulines and shape. In post #7 I demonstrated how I tried to work out the true side view before drafting. You find a lot of screens there. I did the same for the other aspects and the formers´ shapes, too. I´ve also been to Le Bourget (Paris) and Hendon (London), taking pictures. Unfortunately they did not allow me use a tape measure. In the end there is definitely some uncertainty. E.g. have a look at the broadly differing outlines of the duct/blast pipe.

Chris.
Jan 16, 2014, 06:07 PM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
Yours is so close that unless someone has a full scale 162 and a lazer to measure it they wont be able to tell the diff...nice work
Latest blog entry: In flight
Jan 16, 2014, 09:43 PM
Registered User
The He-162 is one of those aircraft that is very hard to tell if the shape looks correct in pictures alone. It has so many off profiles and shapes that once it's complete it will be more obvious.

The 3-view's overlay on your CAD drawing show that it matches the best available 3-views so I would not bee too worried. The guys who responded on RC-Network.de like peter have good curent salamander experience so very helpful. I am also on RC-Network.de ( but my german is rubbish so I have to have google translate everything) because the scratch build on there are like yours, are like nothing we see here, and always of cool subjects.

Thanks

dave
Jan 17, 2014, 02:39 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

turbonut, thank you for the nice words. I really think that it does not make sense to investigate more and spend even more time to find the "real" shape. The problem is simple: You can can take dozens of 3-views available. Even those taken from good literature differ, I´m sometimes shocked after vectorizing and scaling up! As you say the only way were picking up dimensions and extents from one of the originals, not from full scale replics.

I also figured out the delta of the deviation. In most cases it is less than 5 mm, related to my quarter scale build, now and then up to 15 mm. You would have to sort those outliers out, which is quite easy, because when combining the views (side, front, up, formers) to a 3D CAD wire frame model the inconsistencies become obvious when searching for harmonic outlines in the next step in order to draft the free form shells.
Ok, I admit, this needs a bit of experience ...

Dave, it´s not true that there were quality differences reg. "our" and "your" scratchbuilds. You can look where you want. Our hobby is very very versatile. There are so many occurences and types of doing what we do. It´s hobby, nothing more. Although an electronics engineer you should see the cluttered cable salad in some of my models! Not all I´m doing is as tidy as what you see on these pages.

Greetings,
Chris.
Jan 17, 2014, 12:52 PM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
Yes I agree most drawings all have some error. I have found that if the drawings are from the 60s or 70s thay tend to be off. some of the projects I have worked on the drawings are not even close. back then there was just not good info available to the public. now with the internet we can find tons of info on most any project.
Latest blog entry: In flight
Jan 18, 2014, 07:07 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

I was in the cellar this morning and inserted most of the fuse´s spars. Some of them are pine, some hard balsa to keep the weight down. Also glued in the plastic tubes (maxi drinking straws) for all the cable stuff. Already looks like a Volksjäger now!

Have a nice weekend!
Chris.
Jan 18, 2014, 08:26 AM
Build'em and Crash'em
Ken Lapointe's Avatar
Looks great, very impressive
Jan 18, 2014, 10:24 AM
Registered User
newcomer's Avatar
love that little touch on the inst. panel where you added that curved bit to flow into canopy frame.
keep the pictures coming. ever thought of doing the (drawing-board) C & D versions?
david
Jan 18, 2014, 02:56 PM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

you mean one of these here?
Frankly, not for the moment, but one never knows.

Chris.
Jan 18, 2014, 03:52 PM
Registered User
newcomer's Avatar
those are the ones. need to place the AC of the swept wings at the position of the straight ones. a bit of redrawing required, i realise. be sure to post a pointer in this thread if you do.
david
Jan 18, 2014, 07:05 PM
Registered User
Hi Chris

Looks great.

What's the G-10 in the cockpit for?

Thanks

dave
Jan 19, 2014, 05:09 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi Dave,

the G10 is the main part of the battery tray. The 12s pack is going to be mounted on it later. The tray can be moved and fixed at five positions. Have a look at the scrteenshots.

Chris.
Jan 20, 2014, 10:12 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi!

... some more images. Last night I put in the remaining spars and built the stab. Let me show some interesting detail I call "Kammverkastung". I would try to translate that by "comb box". Nothing I invented, maybe some of you say oaahh, old hat!

Img1: Simply sticked ribs into mounting frame.
Img 2: Took one of the combs to adjust ribs vertical.
Img 3: Glued in the pine spars (CA).
Img 4: Put in combs; in my case the front ones from below, the aft ones from above.
Img 5: Waiting for G10 boards delivery. They will be used to connect the stab halfs securely. Only then I can CA in the remaining combs, too.

Nice idea, hm?!

Chris.
Jan 20, 2014, 11:41 AM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
Nice work again. very traditional build style...is there a reason to have the legs for the ribs so tall? I would think if they were shorter there would be less chance they would break during construction. The combs are a very good idea. I have seen this done before but not all kits use this method..It is so easy to do and accurate
Latest blog entry: In flight
Jan 20, 2014, 03:17 PM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

yes, there are two reasons that the legs are just how they are.

They need a certain minimum height that you can comfortably insert those combs coming from the bottom up.
And the legs are rather broadly based so that they won´t break when sticking them into the little holes/nuts of the mounting board.
As you can imagine from the pics, that´s really easy. It did not cost me an hour to build up the two stab halfs so far.
In order to get the legs into the nuts there bottom ends need to be filed or sanded a bit before. Just a bit, so they clamp in the board. No glue is necessary.

Chris.
Jan 20, 2014, 04:53 PM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
I got it! Very cool...
Latest blog entry: In flight
Jan 20, 2014, 04:58 PM
Registered User
newcomer's Avatar
probably the best engineered set-up/design layouts i've ever seen. keep it coming.
david
Jan 25, 2014, 01:27 PM
Designing something...
Chris,

I love it! I don't get over to these parts of RCG very often. I've definitely been missing out! I look forward to viewing your progress.

Grüße,
Brian
Jan 27, 2014, 06:54 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

had a hard-working weekend,
Saturday: children's birthday party, Sunday: half day Rhino training for a friend. That´s why I only had a few hours last night. Anyway the result contents.

The fan and exhaust unit can be fixed with a single little screw. They both keep in place and are prevented from drilling (torsion) by "ten-cornered frames". See the pics and you will know what I mean.

It does not make sense to take of the stab from its mounting board before being planked - like I did, see last image! The reason is that this rc model will be exhibited at my booth (fair) in May this year yet unplanked.

Chris.
Jan 29, 2014, 06:45 AM
space1
Insane
Jan 29, 2014, 07:22 PM
Registered User
Hi Chris,

Looking great!

If this one will stay un-sheeted until May, then maybe your friends turbine powered one my fly before yours?

Just an observation, but the engine nacelle frame with the G10 seems to be undersized?

Thanks

dave
Jan 30, 2014, 12:49 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi Dave,

that´s likely, I guess the turbine version may be airborne first and I´m really looking forward to it.

That G10 nacelle back ring - you can see it best on the first of the img´es posted last - seems to be oversized. I´ve already changed it to a 3mm poplar one in the CAD. My turbine man has tuted at that.
What G-10 former do you mean?
Obviously I miss the forest for the trees sometimes ....

Thanks, Dave!

Chris.
Jan 30, 2014, 12:07 PM
Registered User
The Polar frame that has the G10 attached. I have highlighted it in the picture.

I have highlighted with the red line the change in profile that looks like that frame is undersized?

Has your friend building the other Salamander have a thread or pictures to share? I love seeing more and more of this project!

Thanks

dave
Jan 31, 2014, 02:43 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi Dave,

the turbine Heinkel parts have not completely been milled yet. I´ll do that on Sat and Sun. But Hans-Gerd is rather quick in building and very routined. It is therefore very likely that his model will fly first and before May. I´ll ask him to take some pics from time to time so that we can post some interesting aspects here maybe.

I´ve reflected on the former subject one more time. The former you mean is exactly the one Hans-Gerd an me sorted out to be oversized! As you could see in the img´es above, we initially had it in G10 and now decided to make it from poplar, since it does not have to hold any considerable forces, just keeping the exhaust device in place, hindering the fan from moving side- and up-/downward.
The fan pushes forward and is prevented from turning by the massive G10 former glued onto another 6mm poplar former.

Tell me if you disagree.

Chris.
Feb 02, 2014, 09:15 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

this morning Hans-Gerd picked up the remaining boards and parts for his turbine Salamander. I guess he´ll immediately start the build.

I´m busy milling the intake master from MDF right now. As you can see in the pictures I made a little mistake, accidentially changed the sequence (time order) of flat and steep milling procedures. That´s why the slopes have been a bit burned. I should have done the slopes before the flat areas!

Tonight I´m going to cover the master pattern by resin to close the surface, the work piece staying on the machine therefore. The size is still plus 0.2 mm. After the resin hardened another last finishing process will mill off the remaining 0.2mm.

Chris.
Feb 02, 2014, 12:57 PM
its TALON TIME!
corsair nut's Avatar
Wow this is a incredible build!!!
Feb 03, 2014, 01:05 PM
Who put the rug on the wall?
bubbasanjohn's Avatar
subbed
Feb 04, 2014, 03:14 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris-67
Hi Dave,

I´ve reflected on the former subject one more time. The former you mean is exactly the one Hans-Gerd an me sorted out to be oversized! As you could see in the img´es above, we initially had it in G10 and now decided to make it from poplar, since it does not have to hold any considerable forces, just keeping the exhaust device in place, hindering the fan from moving side- and up-/downward.
The fan pushes forward and is prevented from turning by the massive G10 former glued onto another 6mm poplar former.

Tell me if you disagree.

Chris.
Hi Chris,

I don't think the strength of the former is an issue, Just the outside shape. It dips down quite a bit. the full sized one is amost perfectly straight through there.

Looking great otherwise!

Thanks

dave
Feb 04, 2014, 09:57 AM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Ah,

now I understand what you mean, Dave.

What you see here is that 'kink' showing the cutting line between jet and exhaust assembly.

Chris.
Feb 05, 2014, 06:26 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris-67
Ah,

now I understand what you mean, Dave.

What you see here is that 'kink' showing the cutting line between jet and exhaust assembly.

Chris.
Hi chris,

Yes there seems to be be a dip there in some photo's, but it's very subtle...
Feb 06, 2014, 03:13 PM
glattCAD Flugmodelle
chris-67's Avatar
Hi,

I was busy installing the cnc control cabinet for my new mill. So I just had a few hours to go on with the Heinkel build tonight.

I sanded/lacquered the intake master three times. The lacquer I tried out this time usually is for parquet and stairs. It makes a rather hard surface and drys fast. Very comfortable to handle. Ready for fine sanding now.

I just sticked together a few parts of a wing. Although it is very similar to what I already posted concerning the stabs I´m so fascinated that I show you this again, sorry, but you must have a look on it. I find, that is too cool!
It took me a few minutes only to build this main spar (double holms, double boxed). There is still not a single drop of glue on it, nor needs the build board be fixed on the build table!

Chris.


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