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Jun 05, 2014, 01:10 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW
I can assure you that the EvvGC do weight more than anything I can assemble myself ... but it's pointless to discuss that further, I shared my personal experience, what you do or think is your business
Apologies for the way I worded my reply on the IMU cables, it came across wrong, not my intention. But we are talking about different things: for people who like you can rewind motors and build a super-light gimbal, the weight savings in the wires is worth it. For almost anyone else, me especially using 31g motors, the weight savings in building my own wires is not worth it, while the extra flexible wires do make a difference, especially for a 3 axis gimbal. I also know that my self built wires won't be as durable in a crash as the EvvGC ones (that survived a few already)

It would be good if Paul offered that option, and I was hoping that Greg could forward the suggestion to Paul

Quote:
LOL ... but it's pointless to discuss that further, doesn't lead us to anything usefull
As for my comment on manufacturing, that was my initial reaction as well when I heard about it for the first time, 12 years ago . At the time I was part of a team that was designing reference platforms for PDAs and the early smartphones, and couldn't understand why some design choices were made (I was not on the HW design side, btw, just a god friend with the lead engineer)

For automated production lines, the cost of the "standard" SMD components has a very low impact compared to all the things that cannot be easily placed by pick and place machines and reflow soldered. Thru-the-hole connectors require separate step; connectors, SIM holders, batteries, daughterboards, etc all cause different problems; mechanical components, screens and batteries are all expensive and fragile. SMD components that are reflow soldered rarely have a quality problem and can be easily ATE tested at high speed, anything else creates a lot more failure points, increases QC costs because are harder to test and in case of problems require very expensive rework. Basically, outside of the radio modules (where the IP charges/licensing have a big impact), the silicon chosen had an almost negligible effect on the final cost (the biggest impact was on battery life, where certain components required bigger batteries and increased the cost disproportionately). I just checked today with another person to see if anything has changed in the 12 years since, but it’s still pretty much the same (actually, with ARM processors the cost of the silicon vs performance is even more disconnected, and depend more on the sourcing ability than anything else).

I thought I shared not to argue with anyone, but because I found it very interesting to know at the time, and I thought people here might want to know as well… how much of that applies to smaller production runs like Witespy’s gimbal, I have no idea, but usually small production lines these days are done on the same high volume lines with the same methods. If anyone has first hand knowledge, that would be great to know how the economics of that work out. The fact that many boards are sold without soldered pins is, in my mind, a pretty strong indication that the same applies
Last edited by robca; Jun 05, 2014 at 01:17 PM.
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Jun 05, 2014, 05:52 PM
Registered User
Hi all. I had 1 leftover 10k resistor, so I put that in place of the 47K one that I was missing.
I connected a USB to the board, and connected it to my computer. Should I see any LEDs light up, or get any response from the computer?

I have a CP2101 USB to serial adapter, I downloaded and installed the VCP driver, and win7 recognized it, so I'm assuming it's working.

I then connected the RX TX and GND from CP2101 to the Storm32, and fired up the BGCtool, and tried to install the firmware, pressing and releasing reset and boot0 as directed in the tips.

The red LED on the CP2101 lights up, which makes me think it's doing something right. But the board isn't flashing. I tried with the TX/RX reversed as well, but no luck yet.

Here is the response I get in the terminal window:


C:\Users\tom\Desktop\o323bgc-release-v031-v20140528>"ST\STMFlashLoader\STMFlashL
oaderOlliW.exe" -c --pn 10 --br 115200 -ow -d --fn "o323BgcFirmwareFiles\o323bgc
_v031_storm32bgc_v120_f103rc.hex" --ep --v -r --a 8000000

STMicroelectronics UART Flash Loader command line v2.6.0
modified by OlliW, v18.05.2014

Opening Port [OK]
Activating device [KO]
ERROR: No response from the target, the Bootloader cannot be started.
Please, verify the boot mode configuration, reset your device then try again.

Press any key to continue ...



any ideas? Is there a way to confirm the board is powering up off the USB? I wonder if there is a solder bridge somewhere, or if I did something else even more dumb.
Jun 05, 2014, 06:03 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
I created a temporary mount for my remaining 2-axis gimbal for my hand-held base. I mounted the IMU in the easiest way on the bottom using a 3M firm tape strip. The orientation of the IMU settings can be seen on the "Configure IMU" tab screen image below.

Starting with stock v0.31 settings, I only changed a few settings on two of the three screen images below and my 2-axis gimbal works perfectly! The "Main" tab settings are unchanged stock settings. I also pressed the "Write" button and "Save to EEPROM" button.

I am also using my original 2s Lipo pack and have no power issues or glitches! This resolves the issue I had with my first board where I suspected a bad driver chip that eventually smoked on a 3s Lipo.
  • z-axis points "down"
  • x-axis points "right"
  • Changed motor directions from "auto" to "normal" or "reversed"
  • Pitch offset and Roll offset to center camera

I'll make a video this weekend...
Last edited by Greg Covey; Jun 05, 2014 at 06:13 PM.
Jun 05, 2014, 06:07 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
Hey Tom

with a "naked" board you wouldn't see any led activity

if you connect it to the usb, you should get a response from Win telling that it couldn't recognize it or something like that

to confirm that usb supplies power to the board you could connect an MPU modul and look at it's led... however, unless you have soldered the diodes incorrectly I would consdier it unlikely that there is a mistake in the power train

as regards the flashing, I see several possible issues (which all happpend to me)
- only connecting the usb ttl adapter is not sufficient, the board needs power via the usb or battery
- you just connected the Rx,Tx lines incorrectly (swapped, note some CP Usb adapters seem to have wrong print ons)
- the sequence of button presses were not yet correct
- one of the button actually doesn't work (happend to one other user)
- the pins on the MCU are not as well soldered as one thinks, such that the Rx,Tx pins are actually not connected to the MCU

maybe you could post a photo of your setup/wiring
Jun 05, 2014, 06:11 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
Hey Greg

Quote:
and my 2-axis gimbal works perfectly!
great to hear!

Which leaves me with the puzzle why for some it seems to work in 2 axis while for others it doesn't well...

BTW: I don't really believe that it works "perfectly" with the stock settings ... that is, I would bet that it can do even better than that with some tuning

To have this clear: Your roll-axis motor issue is gone now?
Last edited by OlliW; Jun 05, 2014 at 06:19 PM.
Jun 05, 2014, 06:16 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Olli,

I hear ya but my delivery was more dramatic.

I couldn't detect any issue with my eyes so we'll see what the video looks like.

Here is some data I captured from moving the hand-held gimbal around.
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 05, 2014, 06:21 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
hm, Greg, doesn't your x axis point to the left?

as regards the tuning, you're right, doesn't look that bad

hm, I'm not sure why the magenta line in the top panel is constantly that low, shouldn't be like that ... does it go up to nearly the blue line when the gimbal is at rest?
Last edited by OlliW; Jun 05, 2014 at 06:28 PM.
Jun 05, 2014, 06:27 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Is that why I had to "reverse" my pitch motor? Either way, it works great so I'll make a video soon.

Here is the dot location.
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 05, 2014, 06:32 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
no, reverse or normal also depends on how you plug ypour motor to the ports... so can have several reasons

Greg, please do first the IMU orientation right (you have to redod the motor directions then) ...
there can be all sorts of things going wrong which you don't expect and which you wouldn't relate to the IMU orientaion...
I'm not kidding, all this happend before ... and this just because folks just don't want to accept that they have to get one single step right without arguing
Jun 05, 2014, 06:35 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Here is a fresh image of the data when the operating gimbal is at rest. I pressed the 1.5 degrees button.
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 05, 2014, 06:38 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
thanks, Greg, much appreciated
the magneta line isn't correct, need to think about it
Jun 05, 2014, 06:40 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Olli,

I'm out of "play time" for today so I will revisit things tommorow. When you said, "please do first the IMU orientation right" did you mean do it correct?

Change the x-axis to "left"?

Thanks.
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 05, 2014, 06:42 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
oh, haven't noticed this double meaning, yes, I meant "do it correct"
Jun 05, 2014, 09:38 PM
Registered User
ChristianGeek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexakopter
In my opinion a lot of guys here was waiting for a populated Storm32BGC and KingDaKa has been kind enough to buy parts for 20 boards and says that he will solder and than sell them. Now whitespy comes with an older version round the corner, whith a very low price and the guys "leave him alone".
I'm still planning on buying one from KingDaKa. The Witespy is my "learning" board...if I fry it I won't be heartbroken.
Jun 06, 2014, 05:25 AM
Registered User
first 1.3 Versions available:

https://www.gimbal24.de/
free worldwide shipping, 5 % Discount for a facebook like.
price: 99 Euro inkl. 19 % VAT
Jun 06, 2014, 05:37 AM
OlliW
Thread OP
THANKS for this info, much appreciated!
also THANKS a lot for making available such a complete package to our community


I've added it to the wiki.
Jun 06, 2014, 10:03 AM
Flying Wood For Fun
irun4fundotca's Avatar
ouch $147.64 Canadian Dollar or $135.06 US Dollar does seem steep tho
and the dongles available there sell for .99 on ebay ($13.63 US Dollar is really steep)
if shipping with tracking is free it might work out to a better price

just sayin
Jun 06, 2014, 12:27 PM
Registered User
Hey,
i have some wired behaviour, its probably my fault.
i just did some PID tuning and got pretty good results. the only thing which is not woking really good is the startup of the motors. in the GUI i set usage to normal (0?).
but i cant get the motors to work. i can read the datas in the GUI put it doenst show any control output.
can someone help me?

Cheers,

Alex
Jun 06, 2014, 12:56 PM
OlliW
Thread OP

motor driving capability


Hey Folks,

update on the motor driving capability of the STorM32 board:

I bought a iPower GBM3506H-130T which is rated at 14.3 Ohms, but mine has 11.9 Ohms, as well as a T-motor GB2208 V2 hollow shaft those resistance I determined to 13.8 Ohms.

I connected them both to a v1.1 board with SOIC motor drivers, and let them run at Vmax 200 and a 3S bat with 11.6V for 15 min (no third motor connected).

The driver chips driving the 2208 got warm, but not hot.
The driver chips driving the 3506 got hot, but not too hot, they remained touchable.
The hottest part on the board was the voltage regulator, which was very hot and touchable only for few seconds.

Interestingly, the 2208 motor itself got really very hot, touchable for few seconds. Hence, thermally-wise the "weak link" is the motor and not the motor drivers, ergo the StorM32bgc has no difficulties with running this 13.8 Ohms motor.
The 3506 motor got also hot, not as hot as the 2208, but probably too hot for continous operation. Hence, here too, thermally-wise the StorM32bgc is well able to run this 11.9 Ohms motor.

BTW: the resistance of the 3506 few minutes after having stoped was ca 13.5 Ohms... indicating the amount of heat put into the motor.

In conclusion, I guess we can raise the capability level of the STorM32 board to motors with resistances larger than ca 12 Ohms.

cheers, Olli
Last edited by OlliW; Jun 06, 2014 at 01:37 PM.
Jun 06, 2014, 01:00 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
Hey Alex,
welcome to the STorM32 world
I find your description confusing, you could do some PID tuning, then you set usage to normal and the motors stopped to work? How could you possibly do the PID tuning with usage not set to normal???
Olli
Jun 06, 2014, 01:15 PM
Registered User
Hey Olli,
sry for my confusion at the beginning, i set usage to normal. but i think that i allready found the mistake. i think, i have to keep it still for a couple of seconds. and when i start it in my hands, it might not work because the calibration cant be done?

Alex
Jun 06, 2014, 01:33 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
if this is the problem you can easily see from the data display: if it doesn't reach the "Normal" state (it's the message in the left top corner, it should get shiny green), then the PID controller never gets active... you should be able to feel that the motors are stiff, i.e. that current is flowing through them, but the controller starts to work only then "Normal" state is reached... this might well be different from other controllers you might be used to

BTW. the "Normal" state is also indicated by the green led... when it stops blinking and lights continously "Normal" state has been reached

yes, you MUST keep the gimbal silent until the "Normal" state has been reached, i.e. until the green led lights continously

I've implemented a relatively sophisticated oscillation detection scheme... it will calibrate and continue leveling ONLY if any oscillations fall below a certain (low) level. I found this very crucial to ensure good calibration for the yaw axis!
(you know, for pitch and roll or a 2 axis controller that's not very crucial since the acc helps suppressing gyro drift in these axes, but this isn't so for yaw, hence your only chance is to get the yaw calibration job done as good as possible)


maybe this should find its way into the wiki
Jun 06, 2014, 02:26 PM
Registered User
Okay thanks yes i am used to other controllers. But your PID controller is really nice. The tuning was not that hard and i was able to get the failure while heavy shaking under 0.3 degrees.
My GH4 is waiting for a flight
Jun 06, 2014, 02:48 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
Quote:
But your PID controller is really nice. The tuning was not that hard

to hear this from you is a great motivation
Quote:
and i was able to get the failure while heavy shaking under 0.3 degrees.
you got the "motor-doesn't-work" failure while the PID was running, i.e. in the "Normal"state?
Jun 06, 2014, 03:05 PM
Registered User
No, i mean the absolut error in degrees sry for My bad way of expression :P
Jun 06, 2014, 03:12 PM
Registered User
hexakopter's Avatar
Hey edge0xc,

did you used the Firmware Version with the second IMU implemented? I think a failure under 0.3 is very good, when you just used one IMU. Maybe you can say something to your setup.(GH4, ok, which motors?...)

Regards, hexakopter
Jun 06, 2014, 03:22 PM
Registered User
HeY,
i used only one imu and i am really excited when olli publishes his firmware for dual imu.
My gimbal has 2 x 4108 for roll and yaw and 2 x 2208 for pitch.
tomorrow i will make a scrennshot of the settings arder a hopefully succesfull flight. I might also try the controller on a bigger gimbal for blackmagic Cinema But i am pretty positive, that it will perform well !
Jun 06, 2014, 03:27 PM
OlliW
Thread OP
@Alex, it's my fault, I should have read better what you were saying
0.3deg isn't bad, indeed

@hexakopter, it depends maybe on the setup, but then I'm tuning aggresively my mikrogimbal I get well below 0.3deg... but such an aggressive tuning isn't very usefull, since it makes the gimbal prone to shake in certain positions, or is more sensitive to vibrations, i.e. is less robust
Jun 07, 2014, 03:54 AM
Registered User
Hey,
just did the RC Input setup. is it possible to remove the limit on the yaw axis?
i want infinite rotation

Alex
Last edited by edge0xc; Jun 07, 2014 at 06:37 AM.
Jun 07, 2014, 07:27 AM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Alex,

You might be referring to the "Pan Mode Default Setting" in the Functions tab. Change it to "hold hold hold".

Olli,

A while back we asked what connectors were used on the Witespy board. Paul replied that they are "Molex picoblade".
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 07, 2014, 08:47 AM
Registered User
Hey Greg,
sorry, but thats not what i meant. if i controll the gimbal with a second transmitter, i want to rotate the gimbal in dependent from the copter. at the moment, the movement if limited to 540 degress.

Alex
Jun 07, 2014, 09:38 AM
Registered User
Chains's Avatar
Hi guys,

I finished my v1.3 board now and wanted to flash it but I get the Error:
"Opening Port [ok]
Activating device [ko]
Unrecognized device.
Please, reset your device and then try again."

I am using an Arduino Uno as USB-TTL device. (GND wired to reset, makes it a USB-TTL)

Any ideas? (and yes: I am doing the push the button thing as preparation, buttons are also checked and they work)
Last edited by Chains; Jun 07, 2014 at 09:54 AM.
Jun 07, 2014, 10:39 AM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Alex ,

Ok, I understand now but I do not know the answer. If I try to rotate yaw that far I start filming landing legs.

Chains,

Are you using the correct port as shown below? Can you try using the STorM32 GUI with an FTDI adapter to flash the firmware?
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 07, 2014, 10:53 AM
Registered User
Chains's Avatar
I suppose I use the correct port (as told in the wiki) and if I don't do the "push-the-buttons"-stuff I get a different error. So I guess that works.

Problem is I don't have another FTDI adapter except for my Arduino.
Hm...
Jun 07, 2014, 04:24 PM
Registered User
hexakopter's Avatar
Hey Alex,

you can use relative turn around for the Yaw. It is in the GUI where you can also choose relative or absolute.

Regards, hexakopter

PS.: Hey Greg, looks like you are using wrong ports in the picture?!
Jun 07, 2014, 08:45 PM
Registered User
ChristianGeek's Avatar
Does the STorM32 allow for ease in/out on manual tilt control?
Jun 08, 2014, 04:43 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
This is my latest video using the STorM32 BGC v1.1 sold by ReadyToFlyQuads (Witespy). I loaded v0.31 firmware on it and mounted it to a 2-axis gimbal because my two 3-axis gimbals were in use. The defaults PIDs worked pretty good but I have some pitch jitter that I'll tune out soon. It looks good to the eye but the camera reveals some pitch jitter. Overall, not bad for using the default PIDs!

hexakopter,

I'm not sure what you mean by wrong ports.

Olli,

I could not get the gimbal to function properly when setting the IMU x-axis to "left" so it is still set to "right". We will have to revisit this issue to see if perhaps there is some difference with the Witespy IMU.

So it looks like the STorM32 works fine for a 2-axis gimbal as well. Now I have a question since I cannot wrap my head around the concept of the "hold hold pan" mode setting without a deadband. What is the difference between my 2-axis gimbal and a 3-axis gimbal set to "hold hold pan"? Is the function equivalent?

Thanks.

(1 min 48 sec)
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 08, 2014, 07:59 PM
Registered User
I had some time to troubleshoot my boards. I used a multimeter and tested the buttons, all worked. Then I started tracing the 5v in from the USB, and found that it wasn't getting to the voltage regulator (or is that a converter to 3.3?) well, turns out I had some of those black diodes in the wrong way. Switched them around, and now all 3 of my boards are registering as USB devices in windows.

Next up is to install the firmware.

On 2 of the boards it went fine, and when they are plugged into USB, both red and green LEDs flash.

On the 3rd board, when I plug it in to USB (before flashing) the computer registers a device has been connected. But when I then connect the gnd/rx/tx from the CP2101, it drops the StormBG's USB connection, and I can't get it to flash. I'm thinking there is a short somewhere that is causing this. Any ideas?
Last edited by Tom Frisch; Jun 08, 2014 at 08:25 PM.
Jun 09, 2014, 05:42 AM
Registered User
hexakopter's Avatar
Hey Greg,

I mean the wrong ports for firmware flashing. Looks like you are useing the RC2 ports and not the RC ports. To flash the firmware do it like here: http://www.olliw.eu/storm32bgc-wiki/...flash_firmware

Regards, hexakopter
Jun 09, 2014, 06:56 AM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
hexakopter,

I think you are correct for newer version boards but for the v1.1 board, I believe the outside pins are used.
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 09, 2014, 04:05 PM
Registered User
Chains's Avatar
I have invested some time into my problem now.

What I found out is: My STM32 does not answer properly on UART1.
Basically when flashing, the program sends a command to the STM "0x7F" (autoset baudrate) and receives a "0x79" (everything ok!)
I checked that now through a terminal software. My STM32 only answers with "0x00" no matter what I do. (I'm happy that it at least sends an answer but why only 0x00?)
Could I've made a mistake while soldering?
Jun 09, 2014, 04:44 PM
Registered User

Board dead?


Hi there,

today I found the time (it's been so weeks without Storm32) to get back to my lovely 1.2 board and I wanted to update it.

I ran through the process like I did in my update to 0.28 before and ended with an error message in the DOS prompt. Well nothing too unusual, I thought but now I'm stuck with a problem:

my board does not boot anymore LED1 and LED0 simply don't flash anymore. Can't reset... nothing. When I connect the board to USB it is only found as "unkown device" which makes me really nervous now.

Does any1 of you guys have an idea about that?

Thank you very much!

Jörg
Jun 09, 2014, 05:49 PM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Jörg,

It sounds like the firmware you loaded is not running. Simply try to re-load the firmware again on RC2 and make sure that you use the correct hex file for the v1.2 board.
Latest blog entry: Greg's Web Hangar
Jun 10, 2014, 12:24 AM
Registered User
Hi Greg,
I always loaded it on RC1. Is there a difference loading it on RC2?
Thank you very much!

Jörg
Jun 10, 2014, 12:44 AM
Registered User
I tried it over RC2 - nothing. As I said: LED0 and LED1 are not flashing. Only the BT LED is alive.

Thanks again.

Jörg
Jun 10, 2014, 07:22 AM
AMA 697691 / FAA 13675
Jörg,

Sorry, you are correct in using RC1. The position of RC1 and RC2 looks like it changed from the v1.1 to v1.2 (or v1.3) boards. That was the issue that hexacopter was seeing on my image.

If you have a BT module mounted, perhaps this changes things so we'll see what Olli has to say.

You should see the good communications like in the picture below when flashing new firmware.
Last edited by Greg Covey; Jun 10, 2014 at 07:27 AM.
Jun 10, 2014, 05:03 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexakopter
Hey Mike,

nice to see that we will get a new StormBGC user here in Germany.
I'd advise you to wait for KingDaKas V1.3 board. It is the newest board, nice quality, you have a contact person and it is "Made in Germany".
In my opinion a lot of guys here was waiting for a populated Storm32BGC and KingDaKa has been kind enough to buy parts for 20 boards and says that he will solder and than sell them. Now whitespy comes with an older version round the corner, whith a very low price and the guys "leave him alone". I hope that all of you understand what I mean, but it isn't frindly to let him now sit on his costs. As he already says, he can't produce it as cheap as the chinese. So maybe you can support him and you will get support by him.
Hope with my English I understand everything right in this thread and all of you understand what I mean in my bad English.

Regards, hexakopter
Hi and thanks for the info - so far i have only baught EvvGC boards, where none is working properly and due to the fact the software dev is somehow dscontinued, i'd love to buy a working controller from any source where i get continued quality. So if there is a german source, i would preferably buy there.
Whom to i have to contact to order a working StormBGC controller in Germany ?


Kind regards, Mike
Jun 11, 2014, 12:55 AM
Registered User
hexakopter's Avatar
Hi Mike,

you can write KingDaKa a personal message here in rcgroups. I think his boards will be ready very soon. If you wont find him here you can also write a PM to me and I will cantact him that he then will contact you.

Regards, hexakopter
Jun 11, 2014, 02:05 AM
ROLLER-COASTER-JUNKIE
Ok guys, was a few days in good old UK .
I get the last parts to solder the first boards. Until next weekend, i think i have the first 10 ready to run . I will write everyone who contact
me in the next days. Only problem is that i wait on the TTL adapter (it stucks between china and europe).

I keep you updated....

A few words to the seller situation. Everyone can decide where he buy. Also the guys they already contact me. I am not angry if someone change to whitespy or mamoarmin. They also did a great job to open the market for the STorm32BGC. The main important thing is that you guys buy a board (not necessary where) to help Olli and the community with your experience on this project. But thanks to all they keep faith with my work.

best
KingDaKa
Jun 11, 2014, 10:42 AM
Registered User
deleted
Last edited by Gimbal24; Jun 13, 2014 at 10:06 AM.


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