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Dec 23, 2013, 01:30 PM
Retired CAD guy
birdofplay's Avatar
Tony here is my newest layout.

With all the requested and potential parts changes
and the correct material.

Arranged for easier box insertion and packing.

Happy Holidays,

Bob
Hoosier Cutout Service
Dec 23, 2013, 06:34 PM
Tony Audsley Retired Locksmith
Lockey's Avatar
Thread OP
Bob, I found another mistake while building ... forgot to post it last night ... sorry

# 1 panel (3mm) needs 7 mm adding to the front ... as shown in pic

You know ... I am not sure I like the 3mm for covering the fuselage, it doesn't give any room for "rounding" (sanding to shape) as it is so thin to start with.

It has pro's and con's I suppose ... It is quite easy to bend around the formers .. although you MUST make sure the grain is running the correct way otherwise it doesn't bend properly ...

I had to remake the # 1 panel to add the 7mm ... and I didn't follow this rule and I finished up having to remove it after gluing it on as it dented its self and looked horrible ....

The way you have the parts on your sheet is the RIGHT way to follow the grain ...

Guys, if you are building this and cutting the parts your self ... ALWAYS follow this rule with either 3mm or 6 mm Depron or you will be disappointed with your results ... Depron bends / rolls better in one direction .. show in the pic

Also ... whilst the panels all fitted quite well ... they are all a little too long and will need trimming when fitting ... just can't seem to get the sizing exact when rolling around formers

Lockey
Last edited by Lockey; Dec 23, 2013 at 07:08 PM.
Dec 24, 2013, 08:49 AM
Retired CAD guy
birdofplay's Avatar
Thanx Lockey !
I'll fix that easily :-)

To get the parts "just Right" you will have to build with water soluble glue.
Build , trim and sand to shape then soak it in water , take it all apart and
trace out all the parts.

Yeah RiGHT ! ;>}

Happy Holidays everyone.

Bob
Hoosier Cutout Service
Dec 24, 2013, 12:40 PM
Registered User
fuelsguy's Avatar
Lockey,
on fitting fuselage skin:
I found I has to tape thin strips of 3mm depron onto the two frames so I had a surface, albeit small, that was the outside shape of the frames, not the frames minus 3mm, on which to tape a piece of thin transparent plastic. I could then trace the shape of the skin with a felt pen. I then take the plastic and tape it flat on the 3mm depron and cut on the lines. This works pretty well to get the developed shape.Once you have one piece of skin glued down you just need a strip of 3mm depron for the next frame, and work your way down the fuselage.

Alternatively you can spend hours on Sketchup creating the surfaces and unrolling them to the flat shape.
Here's few shots of my F6F done in 6mm depron frames, 3mm skins on fuselage and wing.

Ivor
Dec 24, 2013, 08:47 PM
Tony Audsley Retired Locksmith
Lockey's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelsguy
Lockey,
on fitting fuselage skin:
I found I has to tape thin strips of 3mm depron onto the two frames so I had a surface, albeit small, that was the outside shape of the frames, not the frames minus 3mm, on which to tape a piece of thin transparent plastic. I could then trace the shape of the skin with a felt pen. I then take the plastic and tape it flat on the 3mm depron and cut on the lines. This works pretty well to get the developed shape.Once you have one piece of skin glued down you just need a strip of 3mm depron for the next frame, and work your way down the fuselage.

Alternatively you can spend hours on Sketchup creating the surfaces and unrolling them to the flat shape.
Here's few shots of my F6F done in 6mm depron frames, 3mm skins on fuselage and wing.

Ivor
Thanks Ivor, I have used that method with the plastic sheet before when designing covers for outboard motors ... I have a friend who has a business making these and showed him how to do this

I like to do it all in Sketchup and then unfold, BUT never seem to be able to get the length correct when rolling round the fuselage ... of course, it also depends on how much you sand the formers to shape, the more you sand to shape, the smaller they get eh !!

Lockey

PS. Love the pics
Dec 25, 2013, 12:30 AM
Jer. 29:11
jeffsch's Avatar
I'm just learning -- but am having success in Sketchup with unfolding the skin and then using the offset tool to resize the formers down by 1/2 the skin thickness in radius. For mostly-round formers, the skins come out just the right length.
Last edited by jeffsch; Dec 25, 2013 at 12:37 AM.
Dec 25, 2013, 05:56 AM
Tony Audsley Retired Locksmith
Lockey's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsch
I'm just learning -- but am having success in Sketchup with unfolding the skin and then using the offset tool to resize the formers down by 1/2 the skin thickness in radius. For mostly-round formers, the skins come out just the right length.
Thanks Jeff, yes mate thats exactly what I do but it depends what material you are using as to the amount to reduce by

I have found that if using 6mm Depron, I recuce by about 5mm all round ... if using MPF (which is a tad over 5mm) then I reduce by 4mm all round but have yet to test 3mm ... I di it by 3 mm and it is too much, maybe about 2.2mm would be about right.

Lockey
Dec 25, 2013, 10:27 AM
Jer. 29:11
jeffsch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockey
Thanks Jeff, yes mate thats exactly what I do but it depends what material you are using as to the amount to reduce by

I have found that if using 6mm Depron, I reduce by about 5mm all round ... if using MPF (which is a tad over 5mm) then I reduce by 4mm all round but have yet to test 3mm ... I di it by 3 mm and it is too much, maybe about 2.2mm would be about right.

Lockey
I'm using MPF; dz1sfb recommends modeling its thickness as 0.225 inches, so I've been reducing by 0.1125 all round, and the sizes come out really close. (As close as I can hope for with hand-cut parts.)

P.S. Keep up the good work on the models!

P.P.S. Merry Christmas!
Dec 25, 2013, 06:21 PM
Tony Audsley Retired Locksmith
Lockey's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
I'm using MPF; dz1sfb recommends modeling its thickness as 0.225 inches, so I've been reducing by 0.1125 all round, and the sizes come out really close. (As close as I can hope for with hand-cut parts.
Thanks Jeff and for the guys who use metric (like me) the conversions are 0.225 inches = 5.71500 millimetres .. 0.1125 inches = 2.8575 millimetres .... Thats about half ... in fact its exactly half

I wouldn't have thought it would have mattered with 3mm Depron ... BUT IT DOES

Only problem is ... when designing plans that other guys are going to use, is that they may use Depron, or they maybe use MPF or maybe some other foam and they all need different reductions

I am going to re do the plans ... BOB (sorry) ... also am gong to make the back a little easier to cover by making it straight (tapered but not shaped .. see pic) I found that it was not that good looking doing it with the slight shape (see 2nd pic)

And add another former at the front to give the front section a little more shape ... (see 3rd pic) oh yes, and I have re-done the cockpit ... apart from that NO CHANGES

Lockey
Last edited by Lockey; Dec 25, 2013 at 07:15 PM.
Dec 25, 2013, 07:42 PM
Tony Audsley Retired Locksmith
Lockey's Avatar
Thread OP
Did a little testing yesterday with a 64 mm fan to see if reducing the exhaust would make a LOT of difference ... here are the results

EDF is ... Hobbyking 64mm Alloy EDF 4000kv (4s - Outrunner Version) ... I used a 2200 / 4's battery ... Exhaust tube was about 7 inches long and I reduced the back end each time

64 to 70 mm ... Thrust 760 g ... 42 w

64 to 64 mm ... Thrust 760 g ... 41 w

64 to 60 mm ... Thrust 770 g ... 43 w

64 to 56 mm ... Thrust 750 g ... 44 w

Seems to me it made little or no difference on a fan this size

I will do some comparisons with props and motors soon

Lockey
Last edited by Lockey; Dec 25, 2013 at 07:55 PM.
Dec 26, 2013, 07:05 AM
Tony Audsley Retired Locksmith
Lockey's Avatar
Thread OP
Quite a bit of time on it today without a lot to show for it ... all the fiddly bits and started to put a bit of paint on it ... not my favorite way of finishing a model but it has to be done on this one

Lockey
Dec 26, 2013, 10:14 AM
Registered User
Lockey:
The changes to the plans make the fuselage lines more pleasing to the eye.
Are you going to up date the plans?
walt


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