Originally Posted by rcbirk21

not true with the cortex.

.......

You can learn 3D with the aid of a good gyro setup. It builds confidence. You can gradually turn down the gains until the gyro is doing nothing and you are providing all the raw input yourself.

Slight tangent, but in many good quality sims there is a prop hanging training mode. The sim takes care of two axis of movement whilst you learn the third. As you improve you take over more axis of movement until you can do all three at once, plus the throttle.

Many people find sim practice boring, so a 3 Axis gyro lets you do a similar thing for real, i.e. Disengage one of the gyro axis until you have developed the muscle memory for that. Work up to learning a second axis etc etc.

Its like training wheels on a bike.

You don't always have to learn the hard way - smashing up planes can be reduced with a training aid in the form of the 3 axis gyro.

If you are an expert 3D pilot (not me!) then you probably wont like the gyro's. I can understand that - seems to much like cheating.

a epp foamy hovers so easy to learn on nobody should need a simulator. I did not use a simulator to learn any of my 3D flying. Just an Epp foamy a while ago. Hovering with modern planes is almost hands off anyhow.

My $.02 is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and to spend their own hard-earned money in whichever way they choose.
If sims and gyros help build some confidence, or just seem like good fun, I say go for it!

Don't like 'em? Don't use 'em. It's pretty simple.


To the OP, I don't have, nor have I seen, this particular gyro. You may be on your own. I haven't even heard of it. Let us know how it works our

I do have AS3X in a 60" Edge. It's been pretty fun to play around with.
I may pickup a Cortex sometime soon as well, for something a bit larger.

I also have lots of planes without gyros. <shrug>


Oh, and don't let folks run you off.
There was nothing wrong with your questions... only the (at least perceived) attitude of some of the answers.

Originally Posted by C_Watkins

My $.02 is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and to spend their own hard-earned money in whichever way they choose.
If sims and gyros help build some confidence, or just seem like good fun, I say go for it!

Don't like 'em? Don't use 'em. It's pretty simple.


To the OP, I don't have, nor have I seen, this particular gyro. You may be on your own. I haven't even heard of it. Let us know how it works our

I do have AS3X in a 60" Edge. It's been pretty fun to play around with.
I may pickup a Cortex sometime soon as well, for something a bit larger.

I also have lots of planes without gyros. <shrug>


Oh, and don't let folks run you off.
There was nothing wrong with your questions... only the (at least perceived) attitude of some of the answers.

I agree, however I know our club will not let you learn to fly with gyros. at least you can not qualify with them. I just think people should not depend on them if that makes sence. I am not against them at all. an of course this is all just my opinions "which do not count for much".

Originally Posted by 3Daddict

you should not learn 3D with a gyro though. Or how to fly with one.

im sorry...but have you flown with one? I know you keep saying it is too expensive for you to get one, which is completely understandable, but it is not right to talk about something you have no experience except a few online conversations and some videos about gyros in planes. the cortex is a product unlike anything we have seen in the hobby industry. actually, i take that back, it is like going from a hangar 9 "3D" plane to a 3d hobby shop or EF plane.

Originally Posted by 3Daddict

I agree, however I know our club will not let you learn to fly with gyros. at least you can not qualify with them. I just think people should not depend on them if that makes sence. I am not against them at all. an of course this is all just my opinions "which do not count for much".

and by gyro in that post you mean the level systems....different class of gyro completely.

Originally Posted by rcbirk21

. the cortex is a product unlike anything we have seen in the hobby industry. actually, i take that back, it is like going from a hangar 9 "3D" plane to a 3d hobby shop or EF plane.

Could you elaborate on the difference between the Cortex @$350 and something like the Eagle Tree @ $70?. The only obvious difference to me was the addition of a slot for a 2nd elevator servo. What can you do with the Cortex that can't be done with the Guardian?

Thanks,

Azarr

Originally Posted by rcbirk21

im sorry...but have you flown with one? I know you keep saying it is too expensive for you to get one, which is completely understandable, but it is not right to talk about something you have no experience except a few online conversations and some videos about gyros in planes. the cortex is a product unlike anything we have seen in the hobby industry. actually, i take that back, it is like going from a hangar 9 "3D" plane to a 3d hobby shop or EF plane.

I have flown a buddies Parkzone Visionair. I did not like it as i felt the gyro was always fighting me. And I have seen a complete noob pick up a apprentice with a gyro, and it has taken them longer to learn how to fly because of it "it was a crutch for them". Again I am not against a gyro, just for learning things.

I think they can be great learning tools... because they are fundamentally something that reduces the pilot work load, this helps you to learn. Trainer planes reduce pilot work load with extra stability, it is their job. But like going from trainers to something harder to fly, unless you continue your learning by turning the gyro off and trying to replicate what you can do with it on... then you haven't learned to cope with the extra pilot work load that the gyro takes care of. Some people may not ever care about being able to fly a maneuver without the gyro, but there's another argument to be had about have you learned to fly a maneuver if a gadget is helping take care of common mistakes...

If your goal is to simply see the airplane do a maneuver... much shorter learning curve. But to 3Daddicts point, if the goal is to do it without the gyro, then it may actually lengthen the learning curve.

Originally Posted by Azarr

Could you elaborate on the difference between the Cortex @$350 and something like the Eagle Tree @ $70?. The only obvious difference to me was the addition of a slot for a 2nd elevator servo. What can you do with the Cortex that can't be done with the Guardian?

Thanks,

Azarr

there are a few differences. i have not flown with an eagle tree, so most of what i know is from a few buddies who have one. the programming is much more complex and sensitive than the cortex. once you get the idea of how the cortex is programmed, it will take you less than 5 minutes to do. it also does not fight you in the air, like a guardian from eagle tree or the as3x. one thing you will notice is exactly what 3daddict says about the other gyros, they "fight" you. the amazing thing about the cortex is while you are flying, you dont even think about it. it doesnt hamper you, it doesnt really do anything you dont expect. it simply makes the plane fell more connected. the thing that makes the cortex special is that you cant describe it on paper or specs. you can even read a lot here on rcg about people either being skeptical about gyros in planes (like me) and other people skeptical about spending that much on the gyro being completed convinced once they fly with it on their own planes. you can definitely fly other peoples planes with it and you will get the gist of it, but putting it on your own plane that you have 100+ flights on just really hits home. you adjust to it so quickly and it just improves your flying without fighting you.

Originally Posted by 3Daddict

I have flown a buddies Parkzone Visionair. I did not like it as i felt the gyro was always fighting me. And I have seen a complete noob pick up a apprentice with a gyro, and it has taken them longer to learn how to fly because of it "it was a crutch for them". Again I am not against a gyro, just for learning things.

that is the as3x....not even comparable to the cortex. just be careful what you say online because people listen and dont realize what you do and dont have experience with. thats a good rule to follow not just for posting, but for reading on the forums as well

ok found a manual for the fc 130
http://www.dualsky.com/downloads/FC1..._manual_EN.pdf

and
Features:
- Ultra-small design, using MEMS gyro IC, only 8 gram
- Independent 3-Axis sensitivity adjustment
- Support single/dual aileron, fly wing and V-tail aircraft
- Support Futaba S.BUS link
- Support CH.5/GEAR channel for the switch of Gyro
- Programable by button and LED

Specification:
Weight(g): 8
Size(mm): 35x27x12

Dualsky Part Ref: 21044

Flying a little quad got me interested in gyros for planes.

I have experienced the "fighting" problem with the AS3X system.

Just for grins I put one of the HK rcvr/gyro combos on my Twisted Hobbies Crack Pitts. It also exhibited the same problem particularly in snap or a violent turnaround. . But, unlike the AS3X system it can be shut off from the transmitter. I now have a mix where full throttle shuts the gyro off. Makes it really fun in high gusty winds.

However, I'm also flying the Guardian and have never had that problem. The setup of the Cortex is more simple, done through the transmitter. The pdf instructions had me scratching my head, but Bob Belluomini has a good description here:
But I'm still not getting the $275 dollar difference in price - not sure what it gains.

That being said, I have to agree with theKM and 3Daddict. I do think they definitely have their place but wondering out loud, I wonder if 3D is the place? High speed, scale, complicated aircraft, high wind, beginners maybe. I'd like to hear from someone who's first 3D experience was on something like the Visionare and how that related to a 2nd plane without the AS3X system. Possibly even if the system is doing most of the work, muscle memory developed may allow for an easier transition to flying without the gyros.

Azarr

Originally Posted by rcbirk21

that is the as3x....not even comparable to the cortex. just be careful what you say online because people listen and dont realize what you do and dont have experience with. thats a good rule to follow not just for posting, but for reading on the forums as well

I understand, I will edit my posts so I do not confuse anyone. It was not my intention to make anyone thin k I have extensive experience with gyros.

correct me if I am wrong
pros for gyro
nearly any 1 can fly, hence the ready to fly 3d planes are to increase sales
help learn

cons
lower learning curve
weight added to plane


are there any 3d planes that do need a gyro to fly them and if so why?