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Oct 18, 2018, 01:21 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Laminating film has replaced strapping as my main wing stiffening material....
Its easier and less messy, just iron on this film rather than glue down the strapping..
After a period of time , by stressing the wing in flight, both will come unstuck to some extent..
Both can be re-fixed easy enough..
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Oct 18, 2018, 11:37 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Been using the strapping tape for some time now and tried many different glues. Not as spars, but as skids and found Foam-Tac seems to work best.
Oct 20, 2018, 01:23 AM
Mark Harrison
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Laminating film has replaced strapping as my main wing stiffening material....
Its easier and less messy, just iron on this film rather than glue down the strapping..
After a period of time , by stressing the wing in flight, both will come unstuck to some extent..
Both can be re-fixed easy enough..
Do you mean traditional lamination, or are you just ironing on a strip?
Oct 20, 2018, 04:24 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Laminating film has replaced strapping as my main wing stiffening material....
Its easier and less messy, just iron on this film rather than glue down the strapping..
After a period of time , by stressing the wing in flight, both will come unstuck to some extent..
Both can be re-fixed easy enough..
What film are you using? See lots of different stuff on the gargler. Some cheap some expensive some iknberween
Oct 22, 2018, 04:04 AM
Registered User
PaulB's Avatar
Dave,

I just converted my 12" Nutball from a Hely brick to a 5 gram brushless last night and noted that the laminating film 'spars' have lifted where the 'ears' fit on the top surface (inside angle). Tried to iron them back down but not sticking any more, seems like the top surface of the Depron has lifted. Might smear foamCure or Por where the film is going to go as a primer in future. Do you do anything like that??

Paul
Oct 22, 2018, 05:26 AM
Danish? Don't U eat that??
DKChris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulB
Dave,

I just converted my 12" Nutball from a Hely brick to a 5 gram brushless last night and noted that the laminating film 'spars' have lifted where the 'ears' fit on the top surface (inside angle). Tried to iron them back down but not sticking any more, seems like the top surface of the Depron has lifted. Might smear foamCure or Por where the film is going to go as a primer in future. Do you do anything like that??

Paul
I've also had that kind of experiences, specifically when combining Depron (Depron brand and Climapor brand) and laminating pouch covering (Lyreco brand, in my case).
In my case it seems to relate to moisture creeping under the film, somehow releasing the glue bond. I've had paper laminated in these pouches prolonged under water with no problems, so I doubt it has to do with the glue on the film. But I've encountered delamination when trying to glue laminate covered surfaces on with PUR glue, and misting the surfaces with water to activate the foaming of the glue.

My guess is that there is some sort of production chemical film residue on the Depron surface, that doesn't like moisture?
Some people have in the past suggested to VERY lightly sand Depron surfaces before gluing to improve the bond. Could be connected?
Oct 22, 2018, 09:18 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
I have not used Depron, only FFF and Dollar Tree foam (DTFB).

Is the surface of the Depron slightly porous? And is it the same on both sides?

FFF (Dow Performance Board II) has one side that is bare foam and the other side has a thing plastic membrane on it that is a moisture barrier. The plastic can be lifted at the edges and is pretty easily peeled off and I do that when I am going to have two or more foam to foam layers.

Then I spray a light coat of the Duro 01-01088 or 3M 77 aerosol contact adhesive on one of the two surfaces that will be in contact. On the second surface that will be in contact with the contact adhesive I spritz the surface with water from a small hand pumped bottle intended to misting plants.

Then I dribble thin streams of Gorilla Quick PU glue on the wetted surface and spread and mix the glue and water into a thin even coating with a spreader cut from a thin and flexible plastic cover for a can of peanuts. The water and PU glue get a little milky looking and the glue starts to foam up a little.

The I position the part with the water/PU glue on the surface that has the aerosol contact cement on it and place a weight on the top part. I use a board that is bigger than the part so that the entire contact area between the two parts is held in contact as the glue/water mixture sets up and hardens (15 minutes or even overnight).

I think what happens is that the weight and foaming action combine to force the PU glue down into the porous surface of the foam. But the bond between the two parts is good enough that the parts cannot be peeled apart later. Trying to do that will destroy one or both parts.

And if I want to add a spar between the two layers of foam described above I have used Nylon filament tape, CF strips or tubes, small dowels or other things that will provide lateral stiffening across the span of a wing.

The first image is a KFm4 Divinity 32" flying wing that has three layers of DTFB foam and has Nylon filament tape and a pair of flat thin 1/2" wide CF strips on the center panel. Those will be covered by the top KFm4 strip and made for a strong and stiff wing.

The second image is the Big Blue 96" glider wing's cross section, that used CF tubes as spars and as joiners for the three 32" wing panels that allowed for easy transport of the wing.

I think having multiple layers of foam that are well bonded to each other and also to any spar materials that are sandwiched between them is the secret to getting the maximum amount of stiffening from added spars.

Here are some build posts or threads that show these techniques in use:

Big Blu 96 - 96" KFm9 Winged Glider - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1470211

Divinity 32 #2 Ready for Maiden - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=305

** Blu Baby 33" KFm3P Polyhedral Tip Wing Build ** - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1474665

Jack
Oct 23, 2018, 07:36 AM
Registered User
BatLaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazsound
What film are you using? See lots of different stuff on the gargler. Some cheap some expensive some iknberween
I've used laminating pouches cut up in the past, 75 micron A3 and 125 micron A4, but obviously the limited size of them is an issue. Wanting to laminate a le Fish glider I looked around for something more suited and found this company.https://presco.eu/collections/lamina...psulation-film.
I bought the 42 micron roll, 23cms wide and 150m long!!!!! With postage it came to about 20.
Just covered a Rainbow wing all over and it's stiffened up a treat. (Cheaper than a blue pill.)
Oct 23, 2018, 09:23 AM
It seemed like a good idea!!!!
Hookit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatLaw
https://presco.eu/collections/lamina...psulation-film.
I bought the 42 micron roll, 23cms wide and 150m long!!!!! With postage it came to about 20.
Just covered a Rainbow wing all over and it's stiffened up a treat. (Cheaper than a blue pill.)
I buy something very similar but roll ends from a company that does laminating.

A 75 micron 440mm wide roll end with about 50 meters on it was 10 last time I bought one. They also threw in some 43 micron 600 - 700ish mm wide Satin Matt for free for me to try.
Oct 23, 2018, 11:56 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookit
I buy something very similar but roll ends from a company that does laminating.

A 75 micron 440mm wide roll end with about 50 meters on it was 10 last time I bought one. They also threw in some 43 micron 600 - 700ish mm wide Satin Matt for free for me to try.
Excellent! I'll look out for that!
Oct 23, 2018, 12:42 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Not all lam films are equal, some have UV protection, some do not. The non-protected causes problems eventually, detaching from the surface is the most common. The same goes for packing/repair tapes too.
Last edited by goldguy; Oct 23, 2018 at 12:50 PM.
Oct 23, 2018, 01:37 PM
Registered User
BatLaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookit
I buy something very similar but roll ends from a company that does laminating.

A 75 micron 440mm wide roll end with about 50 meters on it was 10 last time I bought one. They also threw in some 43 micron 600 - 700ish mm wide Satin Matt for free for me to try.
Company name?
Nov 05, 2018, 11:02 PM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazsound
What film are you using? See lots of different stuff on the gargler. Some cheap some expensive some iknberween
The best material Ive found are sheets from the cheapest ebay A3 size pouches where the pouch is 150 microns thick total... 200 micron pouches can be used but they are heavier... thinner laminating film was tried but was too flexible...

The film is used where previously I would have used tape, or strapping, but the results are a lot tougher...
you use as much as you think is needed/ok..
I iron it on at about 125 degrees.. just at the softening temperature for the foam, it then sticks better...
If you pull it off , the surface of the foam is pulled off with the tape..

Used like pallet strapping but it is ironed on , put for example, mirrored above and below , on a wing or on the sides of a fuzz..
I have used 2" strips , and various other widths.. right up to a full covering on a slope wing..
You need to keep the widths of your strips to the minimum ,if you want to keep the weight down, it is much heavier than tape

deprons surface... I think it is run between hot rollers as its made , and that gives it a harder finish on the surface
Last edited by davereap; Nov 05, 2018 at 11:12 PM.


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