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Oct 05, 2013, 01:24 PM
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Thread OP
Richos, Sorry I cannot answer your question. All my connectors get cut off so I have nothing to reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesco
My V595 has 666hz. If you have an arduino based board (mega or 32u4, 328 limited) with brushed fet i can provide test soft with different pwm rates.
I think I have the hardware needed just no idea how to use it. Maybe this winter I will get a chance to take the time to get something going for this.

Siriusflier - I just added some info to the 7mm section of a test I did comparing a few props including the v252 and Hubsan. Take a look there because depending on which 252 props you are using you may not be getting consistent results. If you have the balanced ones they should yield results very similar to the Hubsan/Traxxas.
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Oct 05, 2013, 01:41 PM
GOT WINGS
siriusflier's Avatar
Woodsturning, the V252 props that came with my V252 included the opaque orange props that BG sells as spares. I am using those and a pair of black ones. I always balance my props on a needle, but none of the 8 props that came with the V252 were out of balance. Only one of the 8 husban H107 props needed a small amount of correction. Visually, the H107 props seem to be about 1mm longer and polished a little smoother than the V252 props. The V252 props did perform a little better than the YD717 props when mounted on the V252.
Oct 05, 2013, 09:38 PM
GOT WINGS
siriusflier's Avatar
Just a little information on props. I time tested the H107 versus the V252 and YD717 props in very aggressive flying with almost no wind. H107 - 5:26, YD717 - 4:50. H107 - 4:41, V252 - 4:19. So in both tests, the battery lasted longer with the H107 props, from about 8 to 12% longer. Outside temperature was about 60 degrees, and none of the motors or batteries were very warm after the flights.
Oct 06, 2013, 09:35 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks for your input. I will copy some of your observations over. For the Hubsan propeller that you did have to balance, do you know if it was an authentic Hubsan prop?
Oct 06, 2013, 10:41 AM
GOT WINGS
siriusflier's Avatar
The props came in official husban packaging and all looked the same, that prop was just barely out of balance.
Oct 08, 2013, 09:11 AM
It got away...
Heck yeah!! Thanks for the numbers !
Oct 08, 2013, 01:02 PM
Eye to the sky!
jason4207's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsturning
The image below supplied in the Hubsan thread indicates they put some effort into the propeller design (although I thought it was a copy of the QR1). Either way they seem to offer great performance on the bench.
QR1 is a rebrand of the X4. X4 came first.

Great work here! Thanks for putting all this together for us!
Oct 08, 2013, 02:54 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
No problem, glad other people are finding this useful.
Thanks for the correction too. I will update my post appropriately.
Oct 16, 2013, 08:10 PM
Whoop the planet!
benedikt's Avatar
too many other things to do.. have to be brief..

I didnt find time to build a similar test rig. But I need results now to decide what motors to stock up, so this had to do for now:
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Description:
Prop is blowing down, so some of the wash might push on the scale. If this has any impact, it should reduce the thrust values I get, correct?

motor: CL-0720 (specs in my earlier post in this thread)
prop: YD717
power source and amp meter: DuraTrax ICE Charger

results:
V A Thrust (g)
1.0 0.3 3.3
1.5 0.51 6.3
2.0 0.77 9.5
2.2 0.86 11.0
2.4 0.99 12.8
2.6 1.10 14.5
2.8 1.22 16.3
3.0 1.34 17.8
3.2 1.46 19.3
3.3 1.53 20.0
3.4 1.61 21.3
3.5 1.65 22.3
3.6 1.73 23.4
3.7 1.76 24.1

These values line up very nicely with the top dogs in the OP, and I confirmed availability in CW and CCW. Reliability over the last few weeks have been better than everything I have seen so far. Not a single failure yet, despite plenty of hard impacts and hard running (HK PUMPQ with cam payload) over many back-to-back packs.

I think I invested enough time to find the best price/performance ratio in a 7mm motor.
Im on the edge of getting more of them to stock up for various projects. I probably have to buy way more of them than I need. I could throw some up the bay for around USD 1.60 a piece plus shipping if there is any interest.
Oct 17, 2013, 09:16 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by benedikt
Prop is blowing down, so some of the wash might push on the scale. If this has any impact, it should reduce the thrust values I get, correct?


I think I invested enough time to find the best price/performance ratio in a 7mm motor.
Im on the edge of getting more of them to stock up for various projects. I probably have to buy way more of them than I need. I could throw some up the bay for around USD 1.60 a piece plus shipping if there is any interest.
Thanks for the info and investing the time on finding the best cost option. It looks like your getting pretty similar results I am with the Syma X1 motors, however I only got 21g of thrust @ 3.57V, 1.8A. Assuming our test setups are reasonably equivalent the ones you found could be even better. The prop wash hitting the scale would likely reduce the measurement, but it looks like you minimized the effect by having the prop offset some.

I am definitely interested in getting some at that price. We could probably arrange something on here via PM or if you prefer E-bay that's fine too. If it's confirmed they are the same or even better than the X1 you could probably get quite a bit of interest. I would at least want enough for a couple quads, but probably wouldn't be interested in more than 10 of each (cw/ccw) without first making sure our test setups agree.
Oct 17, 2013, 09:30 PM
GOT WINGS
siriusflier's Avatar
I was actually thinking that I might be interested in some of those motors too.
Oct 18, 2013, 03:23 AM
Whoop the planet!
benedikt's Avatar
To sum it up:
To the Syma X1 with a YD717, you are feeding 3.57V, the motor is consuming 1.8A, and you get 21g of thrust.
To my CL-0720 with a YD717, when I am feeding 3.6V, the motor is consuming 1.73A, I got >23g of thrust.

some thoughts:

Prop:
When I look at your Syma X1 chart, the Hubsan props produced more lift than the YD717s, even with lower power consumption. Is that repeatable? Can you see this advantage in flight?
I might get some of these if they are good!

Setup:
Assuming that my setup is potentially producing lower thrust values, but probably nothing higher,my results look very nice. But Im keen to get you a few to confirm that.
Do you actually run the motors in before you test them? I have seen fresh, never-run CL-0720s produce a few more gram of thrust in their first few seconds of life, before they settle in the 23-24g range. That doesnt line up with my understanding of wearing in brushes.

Voltage:
Im trying to understand how you come to a input voltage of 3.57V? I was turning up the voltage in 0.1V steps, and then recorded amps and thrust.
In your video, I see you turning up the voltage to 3.6V. Why not to 3.7?

I have only a few spares left at the moment, and they are all CW, but I will see if I can order a reasonable number for my own requirements and a few handful to pass on.
Oct 18, 2013, 05:14 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by benedikt
To sum it up:
To the Syma X1 with a YD717, you are feeding 3.57V, the motor is consuming 1.8A, and you get 21g of thrust.
To my CL-0720 with a YD717, when I am feeding 3.6V, the motor is consuming 1.73A, I got >23g of thrust.

some thoughts:

Prop:
When I look at your Syma X1 chart, the Hubsan props produced more lift than the YD717s, even with lower power consumption. Is that repeatable? Can you see this advantage in flight?
I might get some of these if they are good!

Setup:
Assuming that my setup is potentially producing lower thrust values, but probably nothing higher,my results look very nice. But Im keen to get you a few to confirm that.
Do you actually run the motors in before you test them? I have seen fresh, never-run CL-0720s produce a few more gram of thrust in their first few seconds of life, before they settle in the 23-24g range. That doesnt line up with my understanding of wearing in brushes.

Voltage:
Im trying to understand how you come to a input voltage of 3.57V? I was turning up the voltage in 0.1V steps, and then recorded amps and thrust.
In your video, I see you turning up the voltage to 3.6V. Why not to 3.7?

I have only a few spares left at the moment, and they are all CW, but I will see if I can order a reasonable number for my own requirements and a few handful to pass on.
Prop: Yes this is repeatable. It's tough to say if the Hubsan props are noticeably better in flight but they are every bit as good and I'm certain they consume less power. I tried doing a YD717 vs Hubsan prop liftoff test and got essentially the same result. I'd need to fly with the YD717 props more to say the Hubsan props are better but since they draw so much less current I prefer them a lot. The 8.5mm motors I tested followed the same trend. Below is a plot a while back I did just connecting a motor to a battery and alternating props. 2 props of each type were tested and you can see each time the Hubsan prop was used the thrust went back up.
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Description:

Setup:Yes, your results do look very nice. As soon as you have motors you can part with, we can confirm our setups agree. I usually run the motors at minimum throttle for about 5 min, let them cool, then start testing with fresh batteries. I typically see the first couple spool ups weaker until the motor warms up a tad.

Voltage: The 3.57V is just the maximum output the 1s setup outputs when under load for that configuration. I'm measuring the voltage right where the motor connects and just using a transmitter to slowly spin the prop up. Different props/motors will bring the max voltage down to different amounts depending on the draw. I should get the tables posted that include the voltage measurements from the data I collected, however since the source is the same the current draw is primarily what I have been looking at. I did once verify the board I was using outputs 4.2v when not under load so I don't thank there is necessarily a problem. This may be where our test setups disagree though?
Oct 18, 2013, 07:38 PM
GOT WINGS
siriusflier's Avatar
I have been using YD717 props for months, and I did some different type lift tests a while back, not as carefully controlled as the tests that you two guys are doing, but tests with all four props on a microquad connected to a scale. Since I at least used the same quad and battery with each set of props, I think there was some value to the tests. The results of the tests showed that the YD717 props produced more lift than MiniPet, Walkera, H36, and V202 props, probably at least 10% more lift than any of the others. It also showed that the syma X1 motors produced at least 10% more lift than any of the others. I did not test current draw. I did not have husban H107 props to test at that time.
Since I got some H107 props, I have tested them on my V252 and one of my most powerful and fastest micro frankenquads. On both quads, they produced longer flight times during aggressive flying, at least as much as 30 second longer flights. I still have them on my V252, I think it actually flys better with H107 props or the stock props. On my faster than the V252 fq, I damaged the second set of H107 props on the very first flight with them, so I have gone back to the YD717 props. I broke a few MiniPet props with seemingly minor hits when I was using them before I found the YD717 props. In six months of aggressive flying with the YD717 props, I only damaged one to the point I felt I had to stop using it. I do think the husban H107 props are very good props, but I prefer the durability of the YD717 props for my aggressive flying. And I already have lots of spare YD717 props.
As far as performance in aggressive flying, I can not say that I noticed much difference, sujectively, I liked the way both of them performed.
Oct 20, 2013, 01:06 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks for your input. I included a link to your post in some of the prop testing results. I keep forgetting about the durability factor. I don't have much problem with the Hubsan props and have typically been able to bend them back from bad crashes, however I do replace them after a bunch of bang ups. I haven't flown the YD props enough to compare them though. With the nQX board the flight times are short enough due to the relatively high LVC, so the added efficiency of the Hubsan props is pretty much a must for me. Seems like people using other boards have more freedom in that area.


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