Official "NEAT" response to Flite-test video - Page 5 - RC Groups
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Sep 25, 2013, 11:35 AM
Team Futaba
DanLandis's Avatar
Tom, it was a great event as always. I am looking forward to next year. Thank you for hosting such a great event at such a great location. Keep up the good work.
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Sep 25, 2013, 11:48 AM
Registered User
Oh well, I may as well dive in too...

> I suggest that if folks see something that seems wrong, whether it be a situation or behavior, that you take a walk down to the headquarters tent and mention it. It doesn't have to be confrontational, just conveying info. Like I tell my kids, we're not mindreaders, so if there's a problem please let it be known.
> Consider volunteering to help at NEAT. I've been doing it for years (and I'm not a member of SEFLI) and not only does it help the club but it also allows you to be part of the process.
> Speaking of working at NEAT, Tom has regular morning meetings with all of us to provide status and information. He's made a point of giving us directions based on the prior day's activities, so if folks do give him feedback he's really good about passing it along.
> I think someone made the comment before about there being three sides to every story. Keep that in mind as comments are read. Having worked the flightline I know how the vast majority of pilots are extremely good about working with us and following the rules, but once in awhile things "happen". We oftentimes don't see what's happening until it get loud
> I didn't see or hear about the issue with the pilot's son until it was mentioned here. My net-net is that unless someone is in danger you don't grab anyone, adult or child. Again, I don't have first- hand knowledge of this case but this seems to be obvious. It should be a very interesting workers meeting next year on Friday

Tom,

Thanks for starting this thread to allow folks to vent and also provide "feedback". Nothing is perfect and I know you are good about accepting constructive criticism.

Rob
Sep 25, 2013, 11:48 AM
Did you get it on video?
Flying-Monkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctparent
I was there for this silly episode. The pilot was asked repeatedly to land. He refused. He bickered. He still flew.

Everything after that followed the execrable and un-safe behavior of the pilot.

The officials were very courteous until the pilot refused several instructions to land.

As mentioned, the time to debate is not when instructed to land. Land first, then discuss the burning issues.

The pilot was behaving foolishly and very disrespectfully, beyond his specifically un-safe behavior. He was treated with an absurd level of courtesy when compared to his actions.

There were no such instructions to "crash". He was asked repeatedly to land in an orderly way. He was yelled at (in a manner consistent with trying to get his attention and action) after he refused to simply and safely land.
Of course I'm armchair quarterbacking here, but was his flying posing a threat to other people?

If so, then how much of a risk was he posing? A major threat? (flying at people, over their heads, etc. Then yeah, remove the controller from his hands if you must.) If it's "minor" get everyone else to clear, instruct him that if he didn't land immediately he'd be asked to leave. If he still argued, then have the police remove him on trespassing charges.
Sep 25, 2013, 11:58 AM
Registered User

Opinions are opinions


Opinions are opinions but here are the facts.


Safety is key and top priority at these events to have consistent and fun events.

It is COMPLETELY unacceptable to be rude and yelling (which was on the flite test video) at such event. No matter what flite test had to say, the fact is that it isn't the way to treat people or act at such an event.
Sep 25, 2013, 12:04 PM
Registered User
I see the Flite Test video as more akin to a restaurant review. They gave the restaurant rave reviews in absolutely every single category except one. They pointed out that, in a higher than average number of cases, the customers were not being treated with the respect they deserved. That's all the review said...pure and simple. Other than that...all the rest of the review was raves...

Now...the next question is...is the complaint valid?

Even the supporters of NEAT allude to this "attitude" in some of their comments.

FASTALJR says: "Follow the rules and you won't get yelled at."

But is getting yelled at the default first option...or the last?

antslake says: "I get yelled at every year, and I keep coming back. Seems I always miss a rule or something(not on purpose). The officials themselves get yelled at by Tom."

Yep, that sounds about right...

dr. E says: "Its an East Coast thing, Tom and his grunts run a tight ship..... They're from NY....sorry Long Island....... This is the way things are done around here... The guys may seem a little harsh but Welcome to NY!!!!!"

Hmmmmm..........well................OK............ .....
I guess the take away here is that this is New York. Get over it! Deal with it! This isn't the South. People from Long Island aren't all laid back, and syrupy-sweet and polite like those softies down at SEFF and NALL.

Azarr says: if you have a problem or a concern during an event, then present it in a courteous manner to the Contest Director, that's in his job description. If it's not resolved to your liking then it's up to you whether or not to attend again.

Tom Hunt says: "I would also like to point out that NO ONE came to me over the four days and mentioned to me any inappropriate behavior by my Flightline crew (with the one exception that I was there when the problem started). It does me no good to find out two weeks after the event."

Well Tom, If you were the guy ranting in the HobbyKing video, I can't imagine why anyone would even tempt to come near you to lodge a complaint.

Yep, I agree, it's a regional thing. If people have only one or two opportunities a year to go out to dinner, and if you're OK being treated in a brusque, short, Long Island manner(that may include yelling)....then by all means, go to NEAT.

If on the other hand you want a more relaxing, calming experience...the Flight Test guys can recommend some restaurants down south that may be a better fit.
Last edited by jrkirk; Sep 25, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
Sep 25, 2013, 12:07 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctparent
[Hairless Hippy] >>> I also heard officials on Sunday morning in the park flyer field yelling as if they were going to punch the pilot in the nose if he didn't crash into the ground immediately. The pilot yelled back at the official saying that he didn't need to be spoken to that way and a small debate lasting 5 minutes followed .. basically it was around how the Official initially acted toward the pilot.

I was there for this silly episode. The pilot was asked repeatedly to land. He refused. He bickered. He still flew.

Everything after that followed the execrable and un-safe behavior of the pilot.

The officials were very courteous until the pilot refused several instructions to land.

As mentioned, the time to debate is not when instructed to land. Land first, then discuss the burning issues.

[Hairless Hippy]>>> I also heard officials on Sunday morning in the park flyer field yelling as if they were going to punch the pilot in the nose

The pilot was behaving foolishly and very disrespectfully, beyond his specifically un-safe behavior. He was treated with an absurd level of courtesy when compared to his actions.

[Hairless Hippy]>>> going to punch the pilot in the nose if he didn't crash into the ground immediately

This is ridiculous hyperbole Hairless Hippy. It is factually inaccurate and uselessly inflammatory. There were no such instructions to "crash". He was asked repeatedly to land in an orderly way. He was yelled at (in a manner consistent with trying to get his attention and action) after he refused to simply and safely land.
I guess if someone isn't listening to you, by yelling it again at them, its OK, and they will now listen to you. (this works until your 10 or so)

Its ok to take things seriously in regards to safety, but its COMPLETELY unacceptable to go yelling at people.

Also, factually inaccurate is incorrect.

It's what I observed. My side of the story. Different from your side.
Sep 25, 2013, 12:09 PM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatts05
Opinions are opinions but here are the facts.


Safety is key and top priority at these events to have consistent and fun events.

It is COMPLETELY unacceptable to be rude and yelling (which was on the flite test video) at such event. No matter what flite test had to say, the fact is that it isn't the way to treat people or act at such an event.
I agree with you here. I'll just add that if an event is so dangerous that the customers have to be treated like imbeciles, it's probably too dangerous to hold in the first place.

I think we'd all agree that the premise is false there...but it seems to be the guiding principle of the officials.
Sep 25, 2013, 12:23 PM
Retardedly intelligent
foam and tape's Avatar
As far as dealing with the pilot who refused to land, the official should have stated which rule he has broken (calmly and politely of course) if that individual still chooses to ignore the rules, simply back off and wait for his pack to dump. Unless that pilot is assuming a direct threat to those around him, no further action is nessesary. Once on the ground explain to him why things are and the way things are done. Not only does yelling at someone who's flying causes a distraction for the pilot, it also causes a large risk to safety.All I'm getting from what has happened is some of Tom's crew is that their on an ego trip and couldn't care less of the safety of others, their only interested in that they're right and that's that.

Of couse what I said doesn't matter, judging by the way Neat took the criticism from the FT crew with "I've done this for 14years, I will not change...etc etc". Any one else offering a different view point will simply be ignored and not choose to show up again. No one I know will approach a CD who looks to be on the verge of blowing a head gasket. They simply won't tolerate being talked down to by some one of that caliber.
Sep 25, 2013, 12:25 PM
Crash 'em if you got 'em
waytooslow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by foam and tape
As far as dealing with the pilot who refused to land, the official should have stated which rule he has broken (calmly and politely of course) if that individual still chooses to ignore the rules, simply back off and wait for his pack to dump. Unless that pilot is assuming a direct threat to those around him, no further action is nessesary. Once on the ground explain to him why things are and the way things are done. Not only does yelling at someone who's flying causes a distraction for the pilot, it also causes a large risk to safety.All I'm getting from what has happened is some of Tom's crew is that their on an ego trip and couldn't care less of the safety of others, their only interested in that they're right and that's that.

Of couse what I said doesn't matter, judging by the way Neat took the criticism from the FT crew with "I've done this for 14years, I will not change...etc etc". Any one else offering a different view point will simply be ignored and not choose to show up again. No one I know will approach a CD who looks to be on the verge of blowing a head gasket. They simply won't tolerate being talked down to by some one of that caliber.
well said
Sep 25, 2013, 12:33 PM
3d Master in Training
Perfecty said
Sep 25, 2013, 01:09 PM
Fast and getting faster!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkirk
I see the Flite Test video as more akin to a restaurant review. They gave the restaurant rave reviews in absolutely every single category except one. They pointed out that, in a higher than average number of cases, the customers were not being treated with the respect they deserved. That's all the review said...pure and simple. Other than that...all the rest of the review was raves...

Now...the next question is...is the complaint valid?

Even the supporters of NEAT allude to this "attitude" in some of their comments.

FASTALJR says: "Follow the rules and you won't get yelled at."

But is getting yelled at the default first option...or the last?

antslake says: "I get yelled at every year, and I keep coming back. Seems I always miss a rule or something(not on purpose). The officials themselves get yelled at by Tom."

Yep, that sounds about right...

dr. E says: "Its an East Coast thing, Tom and his grunts run a tight ship..... They're from NY....sorry Long Island....... This is the way things are done around here... The guys may seem a little harsh but Welcome to NY!!!!!"

Hmmmmm..........well................OK............ .....
I guess the take away here is that this is New York. Get over it! Deal with it! This isn't the South. People from Long Island aren't all laid back, and syrupy-sweet and polite like those softies down at SEFF and NOLL.

Azarr says: if you have a problem or a concern during an event, then present it in a courteous manner to the Contest Director, that's in his job description. If it's not resolved to your liking then it's up to you whether or not to attend again.

Tom Hunt says: "I would also like to point out that NO ONE came to me over the four days and mentioned to me any inappropriate behavior by my Flightline crew (with the one exception that I was there when the problem started). It does me no good to find out two weeks after the event."

Well Tom, If you were the guy ranting in the HobbyKing video, I can't imagine why anyone would even tempt to come near you to lodge a complaint.

Yep, I agree, it's a regional thing. If people have only one or two opportunities a year to go out to dinner, and if you're OK being treated in a brusque, short, Long Island manner(that may include yelling)....then by all means, go to NEAT.

If on the other hand you want a more relaxing, calming experience...the Flight Test guys can recommend some restaurants down south that may be a better fit.
Well I was just going to mention "Being yelled at" is a generalization of the fact that if you break the rules you will be told you did and if you continue to break the rules, then well you get what you deserve. That goes for ANY funfly I have attended, from here to as far west at Illinois. Frankly the people who have never been to the NEAT Fair are entitled to their opinions, but frankly you know the old saying......before you knock it TRY IT, despite what others say. Honestly, I wouldnt go to NALL or SEFF based on others, I want to see it for myself and I`ll make my own assumptions to weather I like it or not. If I dont like it I`ll walk away, and keep my comments to the organizers, not placed on a public forum.

As far as the incidents I cant say as I wasnt there, but again, talk to Tom and I`m sure he would have made amends and made things right!

Flite Test guys may be great guys, and they are entitled to their opinions, however, as said, if the issue involved them and they had a problem, their youtube channel is not the right place to express this. They should have went to Tom, regardless of weather or not he seemed "enraged". Tom is and always has been a good guy to deal with and I have been at that event for over 10 years now, and this is the first time I have ever seen any type of large scale bashing of the NEAT Fair.

I am not a hot headed person, and Tom and most of his crew are friends of mine, and let me tell you, they are not the evil people you are making them out to be........

But as everyone is entitled to their opinions, I wish you well in your thread I`m walking away from this mess of a thread!!!

Tom and Crew thanks again and see you next year!!!!
Sep 25, 2013, 01:21 PM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by foam and tape
As far as dealing with the pilot who refused to land, the official should have stated which rule he has broken (calmly and politely of course) if that individual still chooses to ignore the rules, simply back off and wait for his pack to dump. Unless that pilot is assuming a direct threat to those around him, no further action is nessesary. Once on the ground explain to him why things are and the way things are done. Not only does yelling at someone who's flying causes a distraction for the pilot, it also causes a large risk to safety.All I'm getting from what has happened is some of Tom's crew is that their on an ego trip and couldn't care less of the safety of others, their only interested in that they're right and that's that.

Of couse what I said doesn't matter, judging by the way Neat took the criticism from the FT crew with "I've done this for 14years, I will not change...etc etc". Any one else offering a different view point will simply be ignored and not choose to show up again. No one I know will approach a CD who looks to be on the verge of blowing a head gasket. They simply won't tolerate being talked down to by some one of that caliber.
Well put.
Excellent point about the danger and questionable judgment of distracting the pilot... wow.
Sep 25, 2013, 01:27 PM
$#|+
mkmkmk13's Avatar
The FT video wasn't as bad as this thread.
All they said was the officials had an attitude problem, but this thread shows how you were on a power trip, and how well you take criticism and feedback.
Sep 25, 2013, 01:47 PM
Registered User
jeepcj7dude's Avatar
It is not a question of RULES. It was a question of horrible enforcement of the rules. You dont need to yell and be a giant douche to everyone because there was a few bad apples. I wont be going to NEAT next year..... Id rather enjoy the hobby instead of hearing the yelling officials in the background like a bunch of annoying seagulls.
Sep 25, 2013, 01:54 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCobra11
You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You are encouraging two guys with a website, a Winnebago, a pile of Styrofoam and zero CD experience; besmirch a long running national RC event because they weren’t allowed to do what they wanted. Once again I encourage them to put their money where their mouth is and create their own event…..then again I doubt they have the intestinal fortitude or the work ethic to carry it out any way. It's a lot easier to take cheap shots from behind the safety of a video and a keyboard. BTW, something they should think about as businessmen, how many planes do they think they will sell to the electric RC community after trashing one of its premier events.
I will buy one and plan on buying one in the near future. They are a good bunch of guys that have done great things at making the hobby enjoyable. Their product testing has cause me to look at products that I would not have.


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