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Sep 25, 2013, 08:28 AM
Registered User
I want to congratulate everyone who was involving in this years NEAT fair. I had a blast.

I do however feel like Flitetest has a point to their observations.

I personally witnessed Tom talk openly to the people at the registration booth. It was towards the beginning when they first opened for pre-registration. He was talking to these old guys that were working there very disrespectfully and condescending, loud enough that others could here. You could tell the employees were nervous and maybe a little embarrassed. I know I was.

I also heard officials on Sunday morning in the park flyer field yelling as if they were going to punch the pilot in the nose if he didn't crash into the ground immediately. The pilot yelled back at the official saying that he didn't need to be spoken to that way and a small debate lasting 5 minutes followed .. basically it was around how the Official initially acted toward the pilot.

There IS a different way to do it. A nicer more peaceful way.. I mean we are at the Peaceful Valley Campground.

also.. either call the "park flyer" field the ULTRA MICRO ZONE or move it down further away from the main flight line so Park Flyers can fly there (told my Parkzone P-51 should be flown at the big field?!?!) I know my park is larger than the inside of a baseball diamond. The room is there.. further down.. lets use it!

Much potential.. I will return EVERY year, but some small changes may make it more enjoyable for everyone.

Thanks.
HH
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Sep 25, 2013, 08:40 AM
got any foam to bash?
Tom Hunt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairlesshippy View Post
also.. either call the "park flyer" field the ULTRA MICRO ZONE or move it down further away from the main flight line so Park Flyers can fly there (told my Parkzone P-51 should be flown at the big field?!?!) I know my park is larger than the inside of a baseball diamond. The room is there.. further down.. lets use it!
Next year it will be clearly called the "slow flyer area" (though it did clearly say that on the sign as you entered the area). It was NEVER intended to be an AMA defined "park flyer" area. "our definition of a "park flyer" (which was made LONG before the AMA coined the word) is much different than the AMA's and NOW the name will be dropped.

We just do not have the resources to add yet another flightline. if you cannot fly your "ama defined park flyers" in the heavy iron area, please do not bring them.
Sep 25, 2013, 08:49 AM
Registered User

Time to close this bash tread?


You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You are encouraging two guys with a website, a Winnebago, a pile of Styrofoam and zero CD experience; besmirch a long running national RC event because they weren’t allowed to do what they wanted. Once again I encourage them to put their money where their mouth is and create their own event…..then again I doubt they have the intestinal fortitude or the work ethic to carry it out any way. It's a lot easier to take cheap shots from behind the safety of a video and a keyboard. BTW, something they should think about as businessmen, how many planes do they think they will sell to the electric RC community after trashing one of its premier events.
Last edited by KingCobra11; Sep 25, 2013 at 08:55 AM.
Sep 25, 2013, 08:56 AM
Did you get it on video?
Flying-Monkey's Avatar
Quote:
Wow... the mass warbird launch was way more dangerous than anything the flitetest guys were doing. You put that "official" jacket on some punk, and they get the big head puffy chest syndrome. There are ways to show authority without rude behavior.
There's a way to respond to a situation such as this, without resorting to name calling.

The Flite Test video shows one instance of an "official" speaking in a way that could be described as screaming.

Another video has audio that has someone threatening destruction of private property for failure to follow rules.

Is this excessive? I'd say so. But does it do anything to solve the problem to be equally rude back to the people from the comfort of a keyboard, after not experiencing it first hand? I'd say not.

This is an event that folks have a choice to attend or not attend. Armed with the knowledge that this is the way that the officials treat the visitors, and that they seem to think that they've done nothing wrong, it's up to each person to decide if this is an event they wish to attend in the future.

The Flite Test video obviously has opened some dialog that might otherwise have been shouted down, or glossed over.

Will this be a tool to improve the situation, or will folks use it as a way to make an unpleasant situation worse?
Sep 25, 2013, 09:06 AM
got any foam to bash?
Tom Hunt's Avatar
No, I don't want the thread closed, yet.

People who wern't there can vent, it is their right, people who were there and watched the video, but were not present for the "incident" and only see the "edited" version did not hear the ENTIRE exchange, they can speak their mind too.

Flightline officials "generally" ask nicely the first two times (which no one else hears because it is at a normal tone), but when the official has to ask NUMEROURS times and still cannot get the point across, that of course is what is heard and recorded.

This happens ALL over the world! This is not unique to the NEAT Fair.
Sep 25, 2013, 09:20 AM
Registered User
Thanx Tom. It is hard to control my anger at what is being said here. You are a fair man and you are absolutely right. Thanx for everything you do to make NEAT happen each year.
Sep 25, 2013, 09:24 AM
Registered User
Flitetest isn't two spoiled children with an RV. These guys truly don't have a hard word to say about anybody. Their website is designed to bring people into the hobby. They accept feedback and they admit their mistakes. It's a real community, and it represents the best of RC. Take a look at the site, watch the videos, participate in the forum, and tell me I'm wrong. If THESE GUYS say you need to improve your people skills, you really do.

Maybe it is an East Coast thing. If so then our criticisms won't hurt anybody's feelings, because this is just how you talk to each other. I suspect that if this is true you need to be aware that in the Midwest and the Pacific Northwest we expect to be treated with civility. It really is a cultural thing here in the PNW. If we see somebody verbally abusing another person we'll call them out on it, often in our artificially sweet, passive-aggressive way, but still... I see it all the time. So if you invite a crowd of Midwesterners to your event maybe you should keep that in mind.
Last edited by dmedlock4rc; Sep 25, 2013 at 09:30 AM.
Sep 25, 2013, 09:42 AM
Registered User
Not taking sides here.....there are 3 sides to every story any way ( your side...the other side...and the truth falls some where in the middle ). Not actually a big fan of the flite test guys, just find some of what they do interesting, but they didn't come across as spoiled children, nor did it seem they believed they were right. All of their remarks were directed at HOW the situations they witnessed were HANDLED. This is now transferring to this thread, which could lead some to believe the claims. Honestly, statements like " good....more room for me on the flight line" and " this is NY....that's how things are done are done here" are not making the situation any better. Life time NY'er here....born and raised in Brooklyn, 20 years on Long Island....now living upstate. I understand NY attitude, but NY is not the whole U.S....or the world. To the people running NEAT, I've witnessed first hand how something like this can ruin a good thing ,like the NEAT fair. I had been involved in RC racing for over 20 years before moving on to planes, and watched numerous track locations handle situations like this in the same manner.....and they are no longer here. I do not believe there are any on road tracks left in NY state...and very few across the country....because of the same attitude this is being handled with.
Like I said, wasn't there and not taking sides, but I think the anger has to be bypassed and take a long look at just how things were actually handled and at the least say you're willing to look into it and make changes in the future. The defense you're putting up makes you look guilty to an outsider.

That's my 2 cents anyway, hope you guys aren't offended by my opinion, just don't want to see something small like this ruin a good thing.
Last edited by rcguy1958; Sep 25, 2013 at 09:47 AM.
Sep 25, 2013, 09:43 AM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
Good feedback on both sides of this debate, I think.

I have been to NEAT five years in a row, I hope/plan to come back next year because it is a great event, largely because of the focus of the officials and their efforts.

That said, Flite Test got it 100% right.

Every year, people roll their eyes at the behavior of the officials and we all have had some hearty laughs impersonating them afterwords. It's almost comical... but the authoritarian atmosphere is jarring, insulting and unnecessary.

I think most folks agree that the rules in general are sound, make good sense and we would choose to follow them pretty closely regardless. Yep, some will break the rules and action will need to be taken... but scolding everyone is the wrong approach.

There has to be a different policy and the staff (Tom in cluded) need to figure out how to not appear to be taking so much pleasure in barking orders at their customers and treating people like crap.

I have a ton of respect for all of the officials for running a superb event...each of the team who I spoke to individually seemed like great folks with a ton of talent for modeling and piloting...but the customer service policy that the team provides each year is a steaming pile of garbage and it will drive people away who would otherwise be happy/safe participants.

Just my $.02.
Sep 25, 2013, 09:47 AM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
By the way, weren't some officials flying Multiplex Dogfighters in the Mass Warbird launch? Never seen one that wouldn't blow past 60mph.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to fly one...but I would have expected to be screamed at had I brought mine up to the line after the rules were stated.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...47&postcount=1
Sep 25, 2013, 09:49 AM
Registered User
It shard for me to control my anger as well when something is being said about friends the flite test guys are personal friends of mine
and you will not find more decitated young guys to the Rc field then they are! Again they did not say a harsh word toward anybody except
to say the officals where a little over bearing.. and speaking of intestinal fortitude or work ethics ...Ha are you kidding me these guys who enjoy
what there doing also work hard to put together what they have. You say what you want but i dare you or any one else grab my son or daughter
especially at that age that plane would have landed alot quicker then he would have expected!!
Sep 25, 2013, 09:55 AM
3d Master in Training
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimax View Post
It shard for me to control my anger as well when something is being said about friends the flite test guys are personal friends of mine
and you will not find more decitated young guys to the Rc field then they are! Again they did not say a harsh word toward anybody except
to say the officals where a little over bearing.. and speaking of intestinal fortitude or work ethics ...Ha are you kidding me these guys who enjoy
what there doing also work hard to put together what they have. You say what you want but i dare you or any one else grab my son or daughter
especially at that age that plane would have landed alot quicker then he would have expected!!
Couldn't have said it any better. My kids mean a lot more to me than anything else
Sep 25, 2013, 10:02 AM
Registered User
[Hairless Hippy] >>> I also heard officials on Sunday morning in the park flyer field yelling as if they were going to punch the pilot in the nose if he didn't crash into the ground immediately. The pilot yelled back at the official saying that he didn't need to be spoken to that way and a small debate lasting 5 minutes followed .. basically it was around how the Official initially acted toward the pilot.

I was there for this silly episode. The pilot was asked repeatedly to land. He refused. He bickered. He still flew.

Everything after that followed the execrable and un-safe behavior of the pilot.

The officials were very courteous until the pilot refused several instructions to land.

As mentioned, the time to debate is not when instructed to land. Land first, then discuss the burning issues.

[Hairless Hippy]>>> I also heard officials on Sunday morning in the park flyer field yelling as if they were going to punch the pilot in the nose

The pilot was behaving foolishly and very disrespectfully, beyond his specifically un-safe behavior. He was treated with an absurd level of courtesy when compared to his actions.

[Hairless Hippy]>>> going to punch the pilot in the nose if he didn't crash into the ground immediately

This is ridiculous hyperbole Hairless Hippy. It is factually inaccurate and uselessly inflammatory. There were no such instructions to "crash". He was asked repeatedly to land in an orderly way. He was yelled at (in a manner consistent with trying to get his attention and action) after he refused to simply and safely land.
Last edited by ctparent; Sep 25, 2013 at 10:10 AM.
Sep 25, 2013, 10:17 AM
Just Plane Crazy
datazman's Avatar
Hello All:

I usually do not get into a discussion as to someone’s opinion but seeing that the Flite Test review is strictly their opinion I feel I need to add my opinion as well.
First I wish to start with the Flite Test guys review. How can you review an event without interviewing any of the people at the event. After all, the people that go to the event is what makes the event. The event is FOR the people that attend. A full review and not someone’s opinion of an event would have included attendee’s comments and not just theirs.

If you felt an official was rude for enforcing the rules perhaps your opinion of rude is slightly different than the officials opinion of rude. Perhaps if you feel the rules should be lighter for you because you disagree with them than perhaps colored bands should be administered coded with how many rules you are willing to follow. In my opinion this would solve the problem with those who think they are above the rules.

In my opinion the 2013 NEAT I went to had pilots waiting in line to fly at the main flight line unless it was raining hard. All the people I talked to being old and new acquaintances told me in their opinion they were having a great time and the best NEAT so far. The photos of the people I took in my opinion all look like they were having a great time. In my opinion despite the damp weather it was another awesome NEAT Fair.

To sum it up the Test Flite fellas have a right to their opinion as do I. In the end you will form your own opinion hopefully without bias.

Till the next time.
Ta Ta for now.
Sep 25, 2013, 10:18 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hunt View Post
Next year it will be clearly called the "slow flyer area" (though it did clearly say that on the sign as you entered the area). It was NEVER intended to be an AMA defined "park flyer" area. "our definition of a "park flyer" (which was made LONG before the AMA coined the word) is much different than the AMA's and NOW the name will be dropped.

We just do not have the resources to add yet another flightline. if you cannot fly your "ama defined park flyers" in the heavy iron area, please do not bring them.
Tom,
Looking at the size of the field why isn't the park flyer area moved down 100 yards and it CAN become a real park flyer area? Seems like with the Pond the current "slow flyer area" it is quite tight and selective with airplanes.


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