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Jun 05, 2013, 03:26 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Conversations 01: Preservation and a few asides ......


Lets move here.... No more three thousand character restrictions on PMs.... And the discussion can be 'moderated' by at least deletion ...

Fair warnings to all:
1) I edit posts for clarity, emphasis, vocabulary, etc., and researching links for one to two days... just my style of writing so things are somewhat fluid til then &
2) Play nice! This is MY playspace - Trolls and Trolling by MY definition tracked to their lairs and stomped!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgy
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c
I should think so. I always thought England would be THE place for preservation the model boating artifacts and history.
Toys are handled in the UK by the V&A section - Museum of Childhood. Their view is that models of the kind we are discussing are not toys... so they fall between two groupings...

Actually, modern-day England is surprising bad at remembering its history. Roger Bacon, the Franciscan friar (1213/4-1294) has a good claim to having invented the concept of 'Science' (The Wiki has a Catholic interpretation knocking this...) But at least you would think that some celebration of his 800th anniversary was due. There was a big one in 1913. But I have been chasing both Oxford and Cambridge - both History of Science and Philosophy departments and, though 'they'd like to do something', there's no budget and 'he's not really relevant today...'. That wouldn't have happened in the US..

That wouldn't have happened in the US...

Sure it would, just with a few more partisan fire works.... Look what is happening to Jefferson. I thought we had escaped it, but what is happening is not merely 'not remembering,' it is out-and-out revisionism and fable. Something we seem relatively prone to indulge in.

(Seriously, the California State curriculum when I was in grammer school (grades 1-6) taught the Washington really did chop down that cherry tree!!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgy
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c
...clip>... My point here is collections of import almost always start small and many times privately. (and from nutty collectors )

Eventually, mine will probably go to the Maritime Museum down near the Hyde Street Pier that is part of the The San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park. They have a modeling group down there as well. My only "grumph" is that they won't be widely available to the model boating community. Things that go into libraries and museums tend to 'disappear' from the general culture.
There are collections amongst various boat clubs over here, and small privately owned 'museums', or course. Quite a lot of steam toys. But you are right that a museum is the last refuge for something which is not used any more. You can see the Vintage Aircraft scene booming - lots of web sites and publications and meets. I want to get a 'live' collection going which supports a similar boom amongst boats. There seem to be a lot of people who also want to be part of a 'vintage' boat revival - however it is defined. But there are so many aspects to consider, and so few hours in the day!
I agree, a collection for our hobby should be a 'live' collection that allows for both wide distribution and access, 'hands on' education supported by "model boating evangelists" spreading the gospel, not out of general circulation as happens with most things in museum or specialized library collections.

When I worked in Silicon Valley, every serious player / company employed a 'Company Evangelist" for their solutions. Their job, which was outside of the normal Marketing/PR chain of command, was to evangelize the gospel of the companies products to generally everyone, but specifically (as already a mover and shaker themselves) to other decision makers.

The hobby needs not just archivists to tend the monastery library, but friars to carry and most importantly teach the hands on version of the gospel.

What is really need is someone to popularize ship modeling like Captain E. Armitage McCann [Page 2] who almost singlehandedly led the Second Renaissance of Boat Modeling via his articles in Popular Science Magazine between 1926 and 1938, in addition to all the other disciples and clubs. He also ran a national boat building 'club' through Pop-Science, "The Ship Model Makers’ Club" and edited its newsletter from 1929 through 1933.

During the same period though there were a number of others that were 'Manual Arts' teachers who used boats to teach wood shop and who created textbooks, behining in about 1923 and going on until the '60s, but the main burst was late 20s, early 30s and includes Cavileer, Horst and others in addition to the Percival Marshall and other import publications mainly from GB.

(Hmmm.... Maybe we should build a bibliography here as well.... just a random thought.)

One thing about Armitage McCann, he did his most effective evangilazation through instructional "build articles." Just like then, builds seem to attract the most attention on RCG...

Another problem is Americans in general have stopped being social participants and joiners (in real life / meatspace) in general (See Bowling Alone: ) I am unsure how badly this has afflicted folks on your side of the pond.

More to come - just have to run some errands and check the level on the Lake
Last edited by craig_c; Jun 05, 2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Jun 06, 2013, 04:17 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c
Lets move here.... No more three thousand character restrictions on PMs.... And the discussion can be 'moderated' by at least deletion ...

Fair warnings to all:
1) I edit posts for clarity, emphasis, vocabulary, etc., and researching links for one to two days... just my style of writing so things are somewhat fluid til then &
2) Play nice! This is MY playspace - Trolls and Trolling by MY definition tracked to their lairs and stomped!



Sure it would, just with a few more partisan fire works.... Look what is happening to Jefferson. I thought we had escaped it, but what is happening is not merely 'not remembering,' it is out-and-out revisionism and fable. Something we seem relatively prone to indulge in.

(Seriously, the California State curriculum when I was in grammer school (grades 1-6) taught the Washington really did chop down that cherry tree!!!)



I agree, a collection for our hobby should be a 'live' collection that allows for both wide distribution and access, 'hands on' education supported by "model boating evangelists" spreading the gospel, not out of general circulation as happens with most things in museum or specialized library collections.

When I worked in Silicon Valley, every serious player / company employed a 'Company Evangelist" for their solutions. Their job, which was outside of the normal Marketing/PR chain of command, was to evangelize the gospel of the companies products to generally everyone, but specifically (as already a mover and shaker themselves) to other decision makers.

The hobby needs not just archivists to tend the monastery library, but friars to carry and most importantly teach the hands on version of the gospel.
There are a lot of resources needed to increase the numbers of people building model boats. People first need to want to, then they need to be able to find the equipment and raw materials easily (plans are a part of that), and then they need to be able to operate their creation. You may not be so badly off in the US - over here there are very few boating ponds left, and legal restrictions (safety, conservation, noise, etc) on the ones that there are left. I have been trying to encourage our local councillors to provide for model boating in a recreation area that they are currently building, but it's an uphill task...



Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c
What is really need is someone to popularize ship modeling like Captain E. Armitage McCann [Page 2] who almost singlehandedly led the Second Renaissance of Boat Modeling via his articles in Popular Science Magazine between 1926 and 1938, in addition to all the other disciples and clubs. He also ran a national boat building 'club' through Pop-Science, "The Ship Model Makersí Club" and edited its newsletter from 1929 through 1933.

During the same period though there were a number of others that were 'Manual Arts' teachers who used boats to teach wood shop and who created textbooks, behining in about 1923 and going on until the '60s, but the main burst was late 20s, early 30s and includes Cavileer, Horst and others in addition to the Percival Marshall and other import publications mainly from GB.

(Hmmm.... Maybe we should build a bibliography here as well.... just a random thought.)

One thing about Armitage McCann, he did his most effective evangilazation through instructional "build articles." Just like then, builds seem to attract the most attention on RCG...
The web is an ideal substitute for magazines. But I am interested in your comments about 'manual arts'. I have been trying to interest a number of local schools in designing and building model boats as part of a 'design technology' curriculum - one school came up with a rather nice simple catamaran proposal - If I can get the time I'll draft up a plan...



Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c
Another problem is Americans in general have stopped being social participants and joiners (in real life / meatspace) in general (See Bowling Alone: ) I am unsure how badly this has afflicted folks on your side of the pond.

More to come - just have to run some errands and check the level on the Lake
Ah - 'over here' for me is London - which is now so cosmopolitan as not to really have a single culture of its own any more....
Jun 10, 2013, 08:22 PM
Registered User

Babybootleger


Craig, I am currently building a 1/8 scale model of Babybootlegger, obviously not the first model of her and probably not the last. But she is being built to George Crouch's original drawings, with scantlings and wood choices as per the original build in 1924. I have also corresponded with and met with Mark Mason, who found and restored her, and is helping me with the details. Would this be a build thread of interest to your viewers? Syd Balsbaugh [email protected]


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