E-Flite Apprentice S 15e RTF With SAFE Technology.... - Page 2 - RC Groups
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May 23, 2013, 05:08 PM
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Ben Lanterman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tepid Pilot
The problem with "self-righting" airplanes is what they really do is teach the novice pilot to let go of the sticks, which is no help at all. It's like making your chauffeur fly the plane while you watch.

TP
Interesting thought but not entirely true. Back in the "good old days" when all we had was a single channel the rudder only controlled airplanes we had were by definition, and action, "self-righting".

The dihedral in the old designs gave self righting roll effects. The longitudinal angular difference, between the tail and wing, gave a self righting moment that allowed the airplane to fly in a level flight pattern at a given speed. Raise the speed and the airplane would climb, lower the speed and the airplane would come down. Free flight designs depended on this for flight.

Then we found by using the rudder we could do rolls and loops and indeed a contest class was defined around this capability. I still have a Milt Boone designed "Charger" that was a rudder and throttle only design that was very effective in this regard. When we would zero the rudder command at a moderate airspeed and the airplane would fly perfectly level. At high speeds it would loop. As the nose came up we would give full rudder and the airplane would roll.

This rudder only (with throttle control also) airplane was also a great trainer and one that I learned on. It was a self righting airplane in the truest sense of the word. Thousands of RC fliers learned to fly with this type of system. The SAFE system basically duplicates the old Charger.

So we can either do it with aerodynamics as in the Charger, or, do it by electronics as in the E-Flite Apprentice with SAFE.

I think it is a great idea - in my old age with decreasing eyesight I would think it is a good idea. Luckily I don't need it yet. I do need the AS3X capability to help me hover an airplane!!

Ben
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May 23, 2013, 05:12 PM
Frozen Fingers
Rockin robin, My apprentice has that same step in the wing. Someone will chime in with the proper name and purpose. I think is slows the stall speed.
May 23, 2013, 05:41 PM
Drone offender FA377YHFNC
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokeracevt
Rockin robin, My apprentice has that same step in the wing. Someone will chime in with the proper name and purpose. I think is slows the stall speed.
Awesome! I wasn't aware the Apprentice wing was that sophisticated. There are some full size planes that use the same thing, but like you I don't know what it's called.

It ensures that the wing stalls on the center section first, preventing spins. You can still make the plane spin but you have to work at it. Like dihedral, its very useful in a beginner class plane. Without planes that are self righting only people with exceptional aptitude could fly planes. In fact, with proper design just about anybody can learn to fly successfully. That is displeasing to some people. Tough toenails.

You know, some of the slowest learners end up being the best pilots. Really ticks the natural selection "enthusiasts" off.

Same thing happened when computers sprouted GUIs, graphical user interfaces. The old guard said that a computer wasn't supposed to help you use it and people who learned on a GUI were somehow crippled and learning it wrong. You don't hear much from those fools any more and the anti-dihedral crowd is cut from the same rotten cloth.

You know, even THEY didn't learn to drive in a Ferrari. When you forget your past all your learning becomes useless.
Last edited by Rockin Robbins; May 23, 2013 at 05:43 PM. Reason: sp
May 23, 2013, 06:01 PM
Built For Comfort
Tepid Pilot's Avatar
Quote:
Same thing happened when computers sprouted GUIs, graphical user interfaces. The old guard said that a computer wasn't supposed to help you use it and people who learned on a GUI were somehow crippled and learning it wrong. You don't hear much from those fools any more and the anti-dihedral crowd is cut from the same rotten cloth.
Strong words, amigo, but please allow me to translate: "Until peecees had a GUI I was unable to use them." and "Everyone who happens to disagree with me is cut from 'rotten cloth.' "

Suggest you lighten up, pal.

TP
May 23, 2013, 06:21 PM
Registered User
looks like the perfect plane. im assuming, like the glasair, all the tech is in the receiver and you can bind dx6i etc. to the plane and still have all the tech
May 23, 2013, 06:59 PM
1st to the scene of the crash
Laneritc's Avatar
If anybody talks to my buddy Lennie tell his Horizon made this new plane for me and him. Lane
Latest blog entry: Building the sig astro-hog
May 23, 2013, 07:13 PM
Registered User
ChuckTseeker's Avatar
I reckon this technology would be great for putting some LED's on the plane to fly at night, with SAFE technology it should be a lot easier and safer to learn night flying

cheers chuck
May 23, 2013, 07:23 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTseeker
I reckon this technology would be great for putting some LED's on the plane to fly at night, with SAFE technology it should be a lot easier and safer to learn night flying

cheers chuck
oh man that is a brilliant thought/observation
May 23, 2013, 07:47 PM
Registered User
And float flying! You can now order a set of floats for the Apprentice.
May 23, 2013, 09:13 PM
dribbe's Avatar
High. Some info...
The wing is pretty much the same as the original Apprentice.
Yes, you can bind it to other transmitters. The modified DX5E has a 3 position channel 5/gear switch (for 3 selectable flying modes). There are some extra setting available to allow some mode choices using a 2 pos switch. Believe it is in the manual.

Panic is trainer/ch6 toggle (momentary)
Of course it is just ready and easy to use with the included and matched new 5E.

David
May 23, 2013, 09:16 PM
dribbe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyF
And float flying! You can now order a set of floats for the Apprentice.
Yeah... In most conditions you can get by with hands off float take offs and landings...

Also... Hand launches are amazing...
May 23, 2013, 09:32 PM
Registered User
Cheese5's Avatar
Wow this is great! Is the SAFE system programmed in the RX so its removable and can be placed in any airplane? I've been teaching a few friends to fly with the parkzone Radian, its been an interesting experience. The biggest problem was when they lose orientation and the airplane starts to spiral towards a tree or dive straight down. The SAFE technology would save the radian in those cases (without the instructor intervening).

Would the panic switch work if the airplane is inverted, and diving towards the ground?
May 23, 2013, 09:46 PM
dribbe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese5
Wow this is great! Is the SAFE system programmed in the RX so its removable and can be placed in any airplane? I've been teaching a few friends to fly with the parkzone Radian, its been an interesting experience. The biggest problem was when they lose orientation and the airplane starts to spiral towards a tree or dive straight down. The SAFE technology would save the radian in those cases (without the instructor intervening).

Would the panic switch work if the airplane is inverted, and diving towards the ground?
Panic will work from all attitudes and will pick the path that will cause the least lost altitude.... Ex. If level inverted, it will roll out.
You actually have limited stick input in panic mode. Something akin to plus minus 15 degrees in roll, and plus 15 minus 0 in pitch. It will aggressively put the plane in a very narrow and safe envelope even with the sticks in the wrong corners. Even tapping the panic button will engage for long enough to basically level the plane.

For now it is factory tuned for the apprentice. That is not to say it would not work in other planes.... But they would need to be setup mechanically to have the sensors and controls going the right way... And not so much throw that the chosen airframe would flick out or stall during recovery and so forth... Panic mode does recover quite aggressively and the apprentice wing is tough to stall! One would be 'experimenting'.

It is all in the rx.

The idea of the apprentice is that the users does not need to be concerned with any of that stuff.... Just go

David
May 23, 2013, 09:49 PM
Registered User
The Panic Switch pulls the airplane out of any attitude and returns it to level upright flight. I've tried it in nearly every bad attitude I could put it into and it always picks the fastest way to return to level, upright flight.

This system is pretty much how the Pioneer UAV system that I worked on a few years ago worked.But that had a $100,000 autopilot based on a mechanical vertical gyro. Horizon has done this with a system that's no bigger then a normal RX and the price of this RTF new Apprentice is the same as the original one. Really quite amazing!
May 23, 2013, 09:56 PM
dribbe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyF
The Panic Switch pulls the airplane out of any attitude and returns it to level upright flight. I've tried it in nearly every bad attitude I could put it into and it always picks the fastest way to return to level, upright flight.

This system is pretty much how the Pioneer UAV system that I worked on a few years ago worked.But that had a $100,000 autopilot based on a mechanical vertical gyro. Horizon has done this with a system that's no bigger then a normal RX and the price of this RTF new Apprentice is the same as the original one. Really quite amazing!
Thanks Tony....it really does recover expertly.... We have some crazy hand launch vids... Mostly we often had to start launching power off to show the point as power on... With prop blast... It recovers so quickly and firmly that it rarely looks like a bad launch...


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