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Old Apr 07, 2013, 10:16 AM
Damnandblastit is offline
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A disaster in the making.
Discussion

RC Flight Sims - Your Thoughts.


Some think they are the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything.

Some think this answer is the sum of 6x7 and flight sims are okay.


However:

I have a Supercub which I have had since Xmas, flew it first time without crashing, got confident after a dozen uneventful flights, crashed, rebuilt, crashed, did the aileron mod, did more stunts like rolls, wingovers, inverted flight ect, crashed, rebuilt.

Bought a Durafly Skyraider, went against expert warnings, took off, crashed in a death spiral, rebuilt with new wing.

Took expert advice and bought a ParkzoneT28 as a low wing aileron trainer, eventually to gain skill enough to master the Skyraider.

Enjoy that but it has shown more personal limitations such as I am fine with smooth, scale flight. loops, hammerheads ect, but more complex aerobatics show up my lack of skill, aileron rolls are ragged affairs with much loss of altitude and slightly dangerous if entered too low.

So I just ordered the Phoenix flight sim to practice on.

I am not expecting it to be the panacea for all things RC, but I am looking for quite explicit things:
1. To train my now much needed left thumb to control rudder inputs accurately and without thinking about it.
2. To learn the basics of aerobatic control inputs without needing a bin bag.


I do not expect it to make me an expert flyer, nor do I expect it to be a faithful representation of how a particular aircraft behaves in the air.

IMO if you have specific ideas of why you need a sim and what you expect from it, then they are good.

If you expect to fly that EDF jet with only sim time, you will be disappointed.

Too many variables in real life flying from wind and temperature, battery condition, perspective of view and number of airframe repairs to expect a faithful flight model.
I would bet that two identical HZ Trojans fresh from the box would not fly exactly the same.

What are your thoughts on RC sims?
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Old Apr 07, 2013, 10:21 AM
cessna20122013 is offline
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Rc simming in my option is not to fly like the real thing but to learn the fundamentals of flight and direction. And there is no pucker factor in simming.
Old Apr 07, 2013, 10:24 AM
wilf370 is offline
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Bit like dating a blowup doll !!! Not much like the real thing and terribly boring
Wilf
Old Apr 07, 2013, 10:51 AM
Azarr is offline
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I think they're great for learning a specific maneuver and building muscle memory. Other than that I find them boring and not like the real thing. Generally I just pick one maneuver, doing it over and over until I'm bored and eventually it translates to the flying field.

Azarr
Old Apr 07, 2013, 11:05 AM
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Sims are superb tools.

Two fantastic examples.

1) A complete newbie spent 3 months on a Sim before ever flying a real model plane. When he finally got in the air with his model, it took him about 1 hour to "get released" for unassisted flying.

2) A young kid here learned to fly RC with a buddy-box system.
The next winter, he lived on the Simulator.
He wrecked 10,000 times on the Sim... but learned the way to fly 3D. He went from "green novice" to super-advanced in a hurry.

Sims are a superb tool... if the user pushes themselves through a tough learning regimen.
Old Apr 07, 2013, 11:59 AM
mcnowhere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnandblastit View Post

So I just ordered the Phoenix flight sim to practice on.


1. To train my now much needed left thumb to control rudder inputs accurately and without thinking about it.


What are your thoughts on RC sims?
What helped me with the rudder--- a helicopter...
On the sim should be a coax heli to fly around and make you use the left thumb.
Old Apr 07, 2013, 02:46 PM
cmdl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilf370 View Post
Bit like dating a blowup doll !!! Not much like the real thing and terribly boring
Wilf
sorry it didn't work out
Old Apr 07, 2013, 03:23 PM
RyoOhki1701 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustBen View Post
Sims are a superb tool... if the user pushes themselves through a tough learning regimen.
100% agree.

Sims are good, as long as you use them properly, and know what you're doing, and WHY.

IMHO, the perfect beginner can't become a perfect pilot by training alone on a sim, without someone more experienced teaching him some fundamentals. AND the sim won't help you in learning to set up and check up your model at the field. Or exercise caution in handling the model. Or... Well you get the idea.
Old Apr 07, 2013, 08:48 PM
Bloosee is offline
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They are pretty much a requirement for helicopters. For planes not as much, you can learn to fly planes without a simulator. I used to use my Phoenix when I was learning a couple of years ago, flew it a lot. Now I barely even touch the sim, just too boring and not realistic enough for aerobatic and 3D flight. I only use it if I can't fly for more than 2 weeks, then I get on to brush up a little. We are lucky in San Diego though, we can pretty much fly all year.
Old Apr 07, 2013, 11:44 PM
DustBen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloosee View Post
They are pretty much a requirement for helicopters. For planes not as much, you can learn to fly planes without a simulator. I used to use my Phoenix when I was learning a couple of years ago, flew it a lot. Now I barely even touch the sim, just too boring and not realistic enough for aerobatic and 3D flight. I only use it if I can't fly for more than 2 weeks, then I get on to brush up a little. We are lucky in San Diego though, we can pretty much fly all year.
Gee... How did anyone learn to fly helicopters before Sims came along?
Old Apr 08, 2013, 08:40 AM
H2SO4 is offline
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I disagree with the notion that sims are for beginners. They can indeed be put to good use by beginners, to teach them a bit of orientation, and thus perhaps keep the aircraft more or less intact during the first few flights, but that phase ends soon for most.

The real purpose of a simulator is to allow upper-intermediate and advanced pilots to practice specific aerobatic maneuvers over and over again. It doesn't matter whether it's all "pretty" or scale-realistic. What matters is whether the sim physics are passable to the point where the muscle memory will map to the same maneuver on a real plane.
Old Apr 08, 2013, 09:43 AM
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Sims are a great way for a newbie to build up so much self-confidence they won't listen to anybody tell them that their chance to fly that turbine MIG-15 is zero. They teach basics only to a new flier. They lie as much or more than they tell the truth and the newbie doesn't know one from the other. He finds out with a crunch.

For experienced fliers, we can reject the lies and concentrate on using the strengths of the simulator to teach us something specific we want to know. The simulator is useful only because our experience allows us to benefit. We have the ability to use the good and not pay any attention to the bad.

Sims have a long way to go. We're in the stone age with simply subjective flight modeling that no full size sim could use and still be certified for use. It's going to take major investment and plenty of time gathering information for sims to grow to the next level. With the small size of the RC community, I doubt whether legitimizing sims is economically possible.
Old Apr 08, 2013, 09:49 AM
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I've a copy of Phoenix and while I don't hate it, I'm not terribly fond of them. I prefer to be out doing it.

As for 3d I can take any plane in the 3d library and fly it literally like a 3d pro, I can't do that in real life.

For your needs and what you are expecting I think the sim will meet your expectations.

Personally I get bored after about 20 minutes on the sim. In fact I don't think I've used it longer than 20 minutes since I got it. On days where the weather won't allow me to fly it just makes me want to go out and fly more.
Old Apr 08, 2013, 12:02 PM
Kimber is offline
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With the weather we have, the sim is a blessing.

BTW, we are into flight sims big time, three monitors, dedicated
computer. 220gb program.



Brad also designs and builds control units for flight sim.



Old Apr 08, 2013, 12:07 PM
chucksolo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
Sims are a great way for a newbie to build up so much self-confidence they won't listen to anybody tell them that their chance to fly that turbine MIG-15 is zero. They teach basics only to a new flier. They lie as much or more than they tell the truth and the newbie doesn't know one from the other. He finds out with a crunch.

For experienced fliers, we can reject the lies and concentrate on using the strengths of the simulator to teach us something specific we want to know. The simulator is useful only because our experience allows us to benefit. We have the ability to use the good and not pay any attention to the bad.

Sims have a long way to go. We're in the stone age with simply subjective flight modeling that no full size sim could use and still be certified for use. It's going to take major investment and plenty of time gathering information for sims to grow to the next level. With the small size of the RC community, I doubt whether legitimizing sims is economically possible.
I believe this to be so true. There is way too much emphasis on sims for the newbie. I have read some threads on this and other forums that basically state that sims are "essential" to learning RC flight..........rubbish.


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