Scale FPV flight – share your passion, medias, setup & tips. - Page 163 - RC Groups
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Mar 16, 2017, 07:00 PM
Registered User
Sr71freak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker
one big mofo bird! well done
thanks. Had to make it that big to get the cockpit right. Or atleast thats what I tell my wife.
I'm planning on building another one, with a balsa cockpit, and I'll make it more scale inside. I also want to us a figurine body, and a smaller camera so It can look more scale from the outside. This was mainly a proof of concept.
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Mar 17, 2017, 12:18 AM
Registered User
Loukhan's Avatar
PROOFED!!! Great job
Mar 19, 2017, 04:41 AM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Here's something a little different... scale with a twist... head tracking on a tricopter...

C3 Tricopter Maiden 18032017 (5 min 1 sec)
Mar 19, 2017, 09:01 AM
Registered User
That was really cool!!
Nice Barbie too! hehe
Something to add to my 'Do one day' list!!
Mar 19, 2017, 10:07 PM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Whilst I will clarify I do not have a Barbie fetish...
This is something I've wanted to do for quite some time, I picked the tri up cheap 2nd hand, never knew these fibreglass airframes were available, albeit HobbyKing doesn't stock this airframe any more, they still have the fibreglass quad though.
I think this tri is going to be a bit of a regular fpv flyer for me, it's a fun scale-ish bird that has the advantage of VTOL while achieving 7-8 mins flight duration. I've ordered some 3s 4000 10c Multistar lipo's, hopefully achieve same approx duration with a little less weight. Not interested in speed or agility, just scale fun
Mar 21, 2017, 06:44 AM
Flying is Electrifying
CurrentDude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieHoppy
Here's something a little different... scale with a twist... head tracking on a tricopter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_oPZ11W1k
You've fast forwarded the future... We're still in March mate

I think many of us here are closet Barbie fetish :~)

Good vid.

Cheers
Mar 21, 2017, 07:07 AM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentDude
I think many of us here are closet Barbie fetish :~)
sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhh........................ there are non believers listening in.......
Mar 21, 2017, 11:11 PM
cheapskate extroardinairé
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levendis
I'm looking at inav for a higher performance fpv build to film scale rc aircraft...which would require stabilization for video quality. Also because i have probably a dozen old flight controller boards lying around and am tired of stuffing into a medium sized foamy the plate of wiring spaghetti that is the Vector system.

For you who have used the inav system, how long did it take you to learn/familiarize before you could "certify" the system? (Lets say i have extensive experience with vector/apm/cleanflight/openpilot/hobbyeagles etc). And is inav v1.6 on fixed wing about as robust as apm/vector these days?
Many thanks.
My experience with inav has been excellent. We've been performing fully autonomous missions with auto takeoff and landing and have had no issues with reliability save for one time that takeoff mode failed to sense the throw and let the plane flop.
Mar 22, 2017, 10:06 AM
Registered User
Impressive stuff I have to say.

One point, that I always wondered regarding Scale RC flight, was the discrepancy between the accurate replication of real aircraft (= Scale aircraft) and the completely different style (compared to manned aviation) how these aircrafts are flown. RC aircraft are not flown "scale" at all (generally, but also not FPV or Scale aircraft). Doing it the FPV way surely adds another fantastic level of realism. But still, no real P-51 pilot would fly the way RC pilots fly. Even when flying circuits, the Mustang pilot would keep speeds precisely, would apply power settings per flight phase, would do checklists, interact with Air Traffic Control, possibly use some form of radio navigation and so on...

Why is it, that these aspects are entirely left out when flying Scale RC aircraft? IMO it would not only add another level of realism, but in fact make the whole idea of "Scale" perfect and complete.

I hope you understand, where I am coming from. "Scale" for me primarily means, that the aircraft looks like a real one. But the big question would be, can it also be flown like the real one? Is it possible to recreate the procedures or the atmosphere of flying full scale aircraft?

Answering these questions has kept me busy for many years now. As a result I have created a cockpit-software (in the end it is a groundstation) that offers the instruments and all the ingredients to fly "Scale". It is not an either-or solution, but entirely complementary to the equipment you guys run. It allows me to fly a stupid little quadcopter more "Scale" than the most wonderful, giant scale RC aircraft. I can plan routes, fly under IFR conditions, have virtual airspaces with navigation aids, runways, ILS approaches. I can fly with an autopilot, that actually works like the best existing full scale autopilot. Automated or manual ILS approaches are possible. A simulated Air Traffic Control guides me to the glideslope using voice commands.

The latest version of the apps is announced here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hetic-FPV-view (don't be distracted by the synthetic FPV view, the normal FPV camera feed can be injected too, the system simply offers both worlds).

I am curious what you think. Would such system make sense to you? What could be improved? How important would rate a "Scale ambiance created by realistic instruments & procedures & systems" on a scale between 1 and 10?

When I see the videos and the posts in this thread, I cant help thinking that this would be really the icing on the cake...
Mar 22, 2017, 11:26 AM
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parajared's Avatar
Quote:
When I see the videos and the posts in this thread, I cant help thinking that this would be really the icing on the cake...
I could see someone with good video editing skills making that look good, the type of person who can edit a video to make household chores look fun but for us regular full scale pilots oh hell no.
One of the most liberating parts of FPV is not to have to do all that stuff, the reckless disregard for flying formalities and good airmanship.

Prep for flight in real life:
Call the 1-800 number for a WX-brief so you are aware of TFRs. Plan things out on your map so you can avoid said TFRs. Is the weather just perfect, if not don't risk it. Make sure the motor is working so I don't drive all the way out to the field and get skunked. 45 minutes of mounting hang glider to roof-rack, loading trike into back of truck strapping everything down. Drive to the gas station and get enough gas for a good flight. Drive to the airport and chat with the owner to make sure it's ok to use the strip.

Prep for flight with FPV
Maybe check the weather, 5 minutes to toss plane, radio and goggles in the trunk, just presume that everything will work fine; airport, gasoline, TFRs what's that?

Pre-flight in real life:
20 minutes of inspecting wing battons, down bars, king post, risers, reserve chute, leg straps, harness points and a whole arseload of other stuff to make sure you don't plummet to your death shortly after take-off.

Pre-flight with FPV:
Are all the control surfaces responding and going the right way? meh, good enough.

Flight in real life
Constant attention to lee-side/windward side, constant scanning for places to potentially land in the event of an engine out, constantly formulating contingencies, attention to landmarks to avoid getting lost.

Flight with FPV
If I have a motor out right now I'll end up in the trees... oh well, who cares, lets fly under that power line after I attempt to fly down that canyon in the venturi effect and I'll just fly through that rotor coming off that mountain face like it's no big thing.
Last edited by parajared; Mar 22, 2017 at 11:36 AM.
Mar 22, 2017, 05:58 PM
Registered User
Good post, accurate observations I have to admit! Are you flying Ultralight trikes?

I have to say of all the aircraft, Ultralight aircraft are flown the closest to RC aircraft in the sense I am meaning (no or only a few instruments, no or only a few procedures). So the flying part between RC aircraft and an UL trike does not differ that much. And of course there are annoying aspects in manned aviation, that we would not want to recreate for FPV flying

The point I am making is maybe also hard to bring across, if you are a full scale pilot, who likes to do FPV exactly because it is so much more relaxing. But at least to me, who is only a wannabe pilot, I cant get enough of the ambiance of a real cockpit. The flight preparation should be quick for my taste too. But the flight itself, the more complex, capable and realistic the systems are, the better.

My line of thought is also more from the viewpoint of Scale flying. If we strive to fly perfectly recreated aircraft, raise the bar towards realism by doing it with FPV (=this thread), would it not be nice, if we would be able to add another level of illusion, by not only having the visual experience, but also the systems, the ways how to fly and so on? Not to speak of the hard benefits my system would add to a typical FPV setup, like redundant control paths (if only for fallback or failover), superb navigation tools, terrain awareness.

And just for completeness, these would be my actions with FlightZoomer:

Prep for flight with FlightZoomer
Same as you + start the relay server at home -> additional 20 seconds,
leave the home with two things -> the aircraft and the RC transmitter (that has attached the groundstation)

Pre-flight with FlightZoomer
Same as you + load stored route + set the ILS receiver frequency -> additional 20 seconds

Flight with FPV
Take off manually, activate the autopilot, LNAV + VNAV mode, enjoy your flight, at the end let the virtual Air Traffic Controller give you directions to the ILS glideslope, capture the glideslope automatically, take over for a manual landing.

I regularly left my home, took the car for 5 minutes, reached my flight test range, made a FlightZoomer test flight and was back at home before 30 minutes were over...
Mar 22, 2017, 06:12 PM
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by parajared
I could see someone with good video editing skills making that look good, the type of person who can edit a video to make household chores look fun but for us regular full scale pilots oh hell no.
One of the most liberating parts of FPV is not to have to do all that stuff, the reckless disregard for flying formalities and good airmanship.

Prep for flight in real life:
Call the 1-800 number for a WX-brief so you are aware of TFRs. Plan things out on your map so you can avoid said TFRs. Is the weather just perfect, if not don't risk it. Make sure the motor is working so I don't drive all the way out to the field and get skunked. 45 minutes of mounting hang glider to roof-rack, loading trike into back of truck strapping everything down. Drive to the gas station and get enough gas for a good flight. Drive to the airport and chat with the owner to make sure it's ok to use the strip.

Prep for flight with FPV
Maybe check the weather, 5 minutes to toss plane, radio and goggles in the trunk, just presume that everything will work fine; airport, gasoline, TFRs what's that?

Pre-flight in real life:
20 minutes of inspecting wing battons, down bars, king post, risers, reserve chute, leg straps, harness points and a whole arseload of other stuff to make sure you don't plummet to your death shortly after take-off.

Pre-flight with FPV:
Are all the control surfaces responding and going the right way? meh, good enough.

Flight in real life
Constant attention to lee-side/windward side, constant scanning for places to potentially land in the event of an engine out, constantly formulating contingencies, attention to landmarks to avoid getting lost.

Flight with FPV
If I have a motor out right now I'll end up in the trees... oh well, who cares, lets fly under that power line after I attempt to fly down that canyon in the venturi effect and I'll just fly through that rotor coming off that mountain face like it's no big thing.
recently have stepped away from flying manned planes because of all the hassle and lack of fun, and always flying the same type of plane over and over, to the same places over and over ... compared to FPV. The odd scary experience too (eg rough engine on takeoff in a used plane the club just acquired). I have to call flight service then tune in and use 7 different frequencies just to get from the ramp to 10 minutes out at our flying club! (atis, clearance, ground, inner tower, outer tower, then unicom and nearby airfield - bunch more to land somewhere else) Not to mention 45min drive each way to/from airport, and a good 30 minutes prep for the flight - only to have about 1/2 of the winter flights cancelled by me due to weather. bah. FPV is liberating, and the scale FPV gives me a manned-aircraft sensation as a bonus.
Last edited by BCSaltchucker; Mar 22, 2017 at 06:19 PM.
Mar 23, 2017, 03:08 AM
Registered User
Ok, unsurprisingly I can't convince full scale pilots, who love FPV because it requires so much less to just do it

Also you guys put much emphasis on the annoying flight preparation in manned aviation. This is totally understandable, but lengthy flight preparation tasks is surely not the thing I am suggesting. With my FPV avionics suite you are in the air as quick as without.

None of the mentioned annoyances are "available" in my system, e.g. no voice radio needs to be ever tuned. Just to give an impression: The ATC starts directing me by simply pushing the REQUEST button in the app (only precondition: the ILS is tuned, effort 10 seconds). I then get nice heading and altitude instructions (by a female synthetic voice), read back by a male synthetic voice, that I can just follow to intersect the ILS for the final approach. I can press this button at any time or place during the flight, the friendly voice will just get me home. Beside adding another thrilling level of realism.

You see, my system does not bring the boring stuff of General Aviation to FPV but tries to recreate the in-air experience of manned air transport operations. It lets you take a seat in the best office of the world, a place many would dream to experience for just one day.

I would have thought, there would no better crowd than Scale FPV fliers, who would have the ambition, to fly as realistic as possible. I know of course, that it depends on the aircraft type, how the real aircraft is flown. Many are flown under VFR typically, so FlightZoomer would offer more than needed. But even in those cases FlightZoomer could add another level of realism & safety & new capabilities & even some full scale flair in some areas...
Mar 23, 2017, 03:27 AM
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
I was not commenting on FLightZoomer. I don't quite what your product is and you've done nothing to explain it here properly. ( If it isn't a scale-FPV product, then it belongs in a different thread imho.)
Mar 23, 2017, 04:21 AM
Registered User
I have described it in another thread and have provided the link here:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hetic-FPV-view

In this thread I hoped to find those folks, who might be interested in "Scale" flying. Therefore I first brought up the topic generically to get some feedback, whether my idea does make sense for you from the "Scale" perspective.

But you are right, let me give an overview, how FlightZoomer could be valuable for Scale FPV pilots:
  • FlightZoomer is a software that runs on a tablet
  • The main screen shows a whole cockpit, with all instruments you need to fly and navigate, it is a Scale representation of a Boeing 787 cockpit
  • It has an autopilot, that basically allows to set target headings, altitudes, vertical speeds, horizontal speeds (and much more in more flavors, like track over ground).
  • It allows to fly planned routes
  • The cockpit integrates the video feed from an FPV Camera. This view can be placed anywhere on the screen and be changed in size
  • Additionally a synthetic FPV view is available, that shows the landscape in full glory even at night or when the FPV camera link is interrupted.
  • The synthetic outside view allows change the view direction in many ways, as well as changing the viewing angle during the flight
  • There is a Flight Management System
  • ATC simulation as described
  • Navigation is possible based on the map on the Navigation Display, the synthetic outside view, simulated navigation aids, simulated ILS
  • Planned future extensions that could be valuable, is Flight Performance monitoring and management (precisely manage remaining range).

How does it work?

The hardware to be installed:
  • On the aircraft: an Ardupilot flight controller + a smartphone that runs the FlightZoomer Sensorics app
  • Anywhere: On the ground a relay server
  • At the flying range: a tablet to run the FlightZoomer Cockpit app

Technical key points:
  • Project state: version 2.1 is published as freeware, version 3 (that is described above) to be released in the next months
  • Requires cellular connectivity between aircraft and groundstation -> world wide range
  • OS requirements: Cockpit app -> Windows Store Application,

To get an impression have a look at this video. At any time, the video represents exactly what you would see on a tablet while flying:
Synthetic & Classic FPV combined - FlightZoomer 3 Feature Preview (7 min 15 sec)