Brushless gimbal mania - master list - Page 2 - RC Groups
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Apr 03, 2013, 04:59 PM
AMA 869451 / FAA 13675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover
That's a brushed (not brushless) gimbal
Bill, I will make the appropriate changes and thank you for
the heads up!
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Apr 03, 2013, 05:22 PM
Registered User
Excellent idea Papajeff! Consider me subscribed!
Apr 03, 2013, 08:55 PM
jab
jab
Unregistered User
I believe the correct term covering both brushed and brushless motors, is direct drive gimbal.
Apr 03, 2013, 08:57 PM
AMA 869451 / FAA 13675
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingdown
Excellent idea Papajeff! Consider me subscribed!
Thanks, but I just started this because it seems that it might help all of the confusion
about these new gimbals. Now, this thread might serve as the place to find the correct info, but it's the
MRC guys that can make this happen. Thank you for your interest and we will see where this goes.
Apr 03, 2013, 09:00 PM
AMA 869451 / FAA 13675
Quote:
Originally Posted by jab
I believe the correct term covering both brushed and brushless motors, is direct drive gimbal.
Jab, that makes sense to me. Do you think that this thread should
include the brushed direct-drive gimbals also? If so, no problem with me.
Apr 03, 2013, 09:04 PM
Registered User
you should throw in prices and make it a chart
Apr 03, 2013, 09:08 PM
AMA 46133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papajeff
Bill, I will make the appropriate changes and thank you for
the heads up!
Seems like you and others are getting pulled in with all the hype of the "brushless gimbals". A brushless gimbal is nothing more than a camera gimbal that uses brushless motors as actuator. In itself the gimbal is totally worthless. Every one seems to come up with a "brushless gimbal" because that is the trendy thing to do.

The most important focus on this brushless gimbal craze is the controller. So if you really want to be organized this thread should categorize the brushless gimbal craze into four different sections.

1) The brushless gimbal controller. You really only have one official brushless gimbal controller designed by Alexmos in Russia and licensed a few businesses around the world to manufacture and sell the gimbal controller. Unfortunately you have a hard time finding the controller right now because of this craze.

So the businesses that have officially been licensed to manufacture and sell the brushless gimbal controllers are:

Viacopter - JussiH
Flyduino - Paul Bake
E-Copter - Bricobrac
CSGShop - Another Alexander
FPV Model - Jason

Apparently there is an open source brushless gimbal controller also available and it is termed the Martinez controller. I don't know enough about it but I will find out more later.

Then within all this confusing information you have some one writing about his brushed motor gimbal controller. That is only informational because it is not quite ready for sale yet.

Besides this gimbal controller you need an IMU or sensor board. All of the licensed Alexmos gimbal controllers should come with an IMU. Information is still hazy regarding the Martinez gimbal controller board. It uses some open source software and the chinese are making the boards and selling them on eBay. So who knows if the gimbal controller board will come with an IMU or not.

Now the hardware. When you try to put together a brushless motor direct coupled gimbal you need actuators. The actuators are brushless motors. However these are not your normal multi rotor brushless motors. You need brushless motors that are slow turning and draw low current. As of this post iFlight RC and Viacopter are the only source that actually has brushless gimbal use specific brushless motors for sale. Of course you can also wind your own motors to use on the brushless gimbal.

Then the last item is the gimbal itself. This is really the last item and the simplest item to create. All the standard gimbal makers have already been gearing up and testing their gimbal for brushless motor use. Cinestar has their own. I am sure Photohigher has their own. Askman (Andrey Kim) and Gary Goodrum has been testing their AG gimbals to use with the brushless motors and Rusty at AGL Hobbies is currently testing his gimbal to use with brushless motors. There is really nothing difficult about adapting a brushless motor to the existing gimbal.

It is because the gimbal itself is so easy to make seems like everybody and their brothers are making them. Therefore you have all these people claiming you can make your own brushless gimbal for your GoPro. Then there are others that have factories in China turning gimbals that they claimed to be used in the brushless gimbal craze. Any high school student with a course in CAD and a 3D printer can now "print" out a brushless gimbal.

The trouble is that even if you have the world best "brushless gimbal" you are not going anywhere without the controller.

The reason why there are not more camera gimbals before the brushless craze was because finding the proper gimbal controller and the proper servos to actuate the gimbal was an uphill battle. The gimbal again is the simple portion of the equation. The controllers and actuators are the difficult part.

So when you organize the links and items on the first page of this thread. Please keep what I said in mind so newbies will not get taken for a ride by some unscrupulous opportunist and throw their money away only to find out all they get is a piece of metal or plastic part with nothing to control it.
Apr 03, 2013, 09:13 PM
Registered User
there's hype and craze, yes, but brushless is definitely the way to go. no jitter and low resolution of standard servos. (digital helps, but for anyone using UHF, you get your resolution cut in half) stepper motors have ridiculous holding torque, but due to this torque, they jump very harshly from step to step. even microstepping isn't enough to make this a smooth option.

brushless... expensive, harder to control, and scarce (or DIY), but they're perfect for the job. yes, you need a good balanced adjustable gimbal (that lets you set the lens to the center of both axis), and you need a good controller, but i don't see any reason for not having a good thread like this to throw all the choices together
Apr 03, 2013, 09:17 PM
Registered User
in fact, i tested the stepper route with a nema 17 stepper. has the torque to keep up with quick movements, but even with 8 microsteps per step, it jittered step to step enough to cause slight jello. plus when you microstep, you lose holding torque, so it's a tradeoff. i've yet to play with brushless. i have some unused turnigy brushless motors i'll have to rewind and play around with. could also give me a good reason to dust off the ol 3d printer lol
Apr 03, 2013, 10:26 PM
Registered User
Well put SeismicCWave.

IMHO there is way too much childish hype regarding "brushless" gimbals. I don't care if the gimbal is squirrel powered all I care about is the video. So far only the well established conventional servo gimbals such as Cinestar or Photohigher have proven their worth in hundred of films and movies.

I have yet to see a brushless video from other than the Zenmuse that is better than a properly used servo driven professional gimbal.

The other bigger difference is the brushless all carry hobby cameras. It will be fun to use my NEX or Gopro on a brushless but no one in Hollywood is going to care until it can carry a Red or similar camera which the Cinestar has done.

So I am just watching this and letting people spend their money while it sorts itself out.

My bet is on the brushed gimbal by Paul@SCC the videos he posted with zoomed in video and the laser pointer make all the others look stupid.
Apr 03, 2013, 10:31 PM
AMA 46133
>>My bet is on the brushed gimbal by Paul@SCC the videos he posted with zoomed in video and the laser pointer make all the others look stupid.<<

The reason why the brushed gimbal is going to work better is because the motor will react much faster to the controller. A sensorless brushless motor controller needs to get feedback from the motor to know which way to "turn" the motor. OTOH a sensored brushless motor as an actuator is a better idea.
Apr 03, 2013, 10:34 PM
AMA 46133
>>brushless... expensive, harder to control, and scarce (or DIY), but they're perfect for the job.<<

Very true but you also need to define the job. For a light weight camera the current brushless gimbal setup is great. However The L6234 motor drive can only handle a maximum of 5 amps so you are hard press to get any brushless motor to hold a heavy payload and swing it around in the wind.
Apr 03, 2013, 10:35 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeismicCWave
>>My bet is on the brushed gimbal by Paul@SCC the videos he posted with zoomed in video and the laser pointer make all the others look stupid.<<

The reason why the brushed gimbal is going to work better is because the motor will react much faster to the controller. A sensorless brushless motor controller needs to get feedback from the motor to know which way to "turn" the motor. OTOH a sensored brushless motor as an actuator is a better idea.
anyone tried using a rotary encoder for this? could be cheaper than those sensored motors. i'm thinking a quadrature rotary encoder plus non sensored brushless is probablys till cheaper than a sensored brushless motor. you could hook it up at the opposite end of the axis to the brushless motor. might be another thing to try--i have everything i need to try it.

too many projects, not enough time
Apr 03, 2013, 10:36 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeismicCWave
>>brushless... expensive, harder to control, and scarce (or DIY), but they're perfect for the job.<<

Very true but you also need to define the job. For a light weight camera the current brushless gimbal setup is great. However The L6234 motor drive can only handle a maximum of 5 amps so you are hard press to get any brushless motor to hold a heavy payload and swing it around in the wind.
yeah I imagine that's a bit skimpy for swinging a 5D lol
Apr 03, 2013, 10:59 PM
Registered User
AlanGold's Avatar
I have a theory that an engineering teacher in China gave his students an assignment to each design a brushless gimbal.

I think most of us have read that what makes this all possible is the availability of new controllers and motors. Obviously putting those items together with mechanical pivots and platforms is not rocket science. We just have to wait a little while for them to be sold to see how they pan out in use.

I really like the idea of a very small one that can mount a GoPro to the front of my TBS Discovery. Whereas many of the other designs have the gimbal hanging underneath and would require landing gear to be added to the Disco. This Spidex one might do the trick for me.

Last edited by AlanGold; Apr 03, 2013 at 11:06 PM.


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