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Mar 17, 2013, 09:34 AM
Isaiah 40:31
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Build Log

1. YF-23 Full Fuselage Depron Parkjet


Length = 1110mm x 715mm
Pusher has a wing loading of 9.5 oz/ft2
EDF has a wing loading of 11.7 oz/ft2

Plans have moved to :-
www.jetworks.online


YF 23 Parkjet (2 min 53 sec)


PUSHER PROP Grey Ghost :-
[
RC YF-23 Grey Ghost (3 min 26 sec)


EDF Black widow overview :-
Black widow II Twin 50mm EDF Parkjet (5 min 10 sec)
Last edited by Clickety; Jan 12, 2019 at 02:39 AM.
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Mar 20, 2013, 06:20 AM
Registered User
SONICX's Avatar
Nice design, i like the YF23 so much more than the F22, lot better looking.
Mar 20, 2013, 06:34 AM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
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Thanks Sonicx I totally agree!!

With my design I worked very hard to keep it as scale as possible within the constraints of easy construction with depron.
Mar 22, 2013, 06:59 AM
Crash-safe
lessram's Avatar
Clickety

Yesterday evening I drooled once again over your plans and did another theoretical pusher build

Though you’d like input from experienced aircraft designer, here are my 5 cents as an average builder (already built a few of Jetset’s jets) who is accused to overthink everything.

About the plan.
Cosemetic typo. There are two “rear exhaust duct INNER” pieces. I think the short one it the “OUTER”

The bevel lines on the pieces are a big help. Is it possible to do this also for the “lower rear fuselage side” and “fwd fuselage upper side” ?

The missing slot for the “turledeck bulkhead” I already mentioned.

Construction Guide
In Step 9, you recommend to leave out the “edf engine mount” for the pusher version. I think even for the pusher version, putting them in makes life much easier.
My reasoning, it’s much easier to attach the top/side panels of the top nacelle to the mount than gluing it directly to forward nacelle parts. But more important, I don’t think I’m able to correctly glue in the lower rear fuselage side, just with the rear bulkhead and jig 3. The mount helps to set the curve right.

I was a little puzzled about the back of the plane. It is needed to cut out the two hexagonal pieces (drawn in red on the plan) in the back of the “main wing panel” between step 13 and step 14. Correct ?

Finally: I’m really impressed about how well thought out the plans are. Since I’m in the process of designing a PakFa pusher, I have to look where I can steal something from your concept.

Again Thanks a lot for the plan
Mar 22, 2013, 01:48 PM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP

yf-23 Pusher


Hi Lessram,

I look forward to hearing about your pusher YF-23 project, How's the PakFa? an interesting plane! I would be really pleased to see your work.

I'm very pleased that you are giving me honest feedback, and I'm already thinking of when to release a MK2 version of my plans!! Thank you for taking the trouble to write.

Please excuse the schoolboy mistakes, I did a lot of the work preparing the plans late at night!

Yes the short exhaust duct is the Outer!! and yes I'll put the bevel lines on the few pieces that it's missing on - I think that this is a translation issue as I seem to remember them being their on the 3D CAD model. Got the “turtledeck bulkhead” you mentioned.

Construction Guide

The reason I removed the EDF engine mount for the pusher was to remove drag as the Pusher doesn't need 3mm air-intakes, which would take the airflow smoothly into the EDF units. Without the 3mm air-intakes it leaves a bulkhead.
.
Of course it would make an easier build. Of course you could dry-fit the edf mount and use it as a former - to remove later - which may be an option.

The other is to make a skeletel framework with the same exterior shape as the Enging mount bulkheads to remove much of the drag inducing frame...

In terms of the underside, I had failed to include a fourth JIG for the pusher only version to locate the lower rear fuselage side. This would be exactly the same shape as the EDF engine mount. I'll be building the pusher version myself soon and will make a set of pusher only plans, and I'll understand then what the issues are.

The Red hexagons are identifying an area of depron to leave un-cut until later. They are designed to hold the fuselage together so that the airframe doesn't twist or bend until it has enough structure around it to hold it in place. I'll mention this in the next version of the plans!! Oops! Leave them in as long as you can in order to keep the airframe straight!!

Thank you for you affirming words of encouragement. I'm pleased that you are taking so much interest. I am trying to work at a high standard as I know how much fun it is to make Jetset's designs,and how frustrating it is to follow incomplete plans.

Let me know when you are thinking of building the yf-23 pusher and I'll try and release a MK2 plan before then.

Cheers

Clickety
Mar 23, 2013, 07:16 AM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP

Cog!


I've been preparing my EDF model since my first test flights, and I have compared my COG - based on Vicentels suggestion, and Unclecrash's calculations and I'm going to move it forward so that it's 100mm behind the intersection of wing/fuselage.

My problem with this is that it requires SO much weight forward to achieve this COG, I'm using a 2700mah zippy battery to get the balance! This is SO heavy.

I had originally purchased these for the job, as Web-o-calc seems to think that they will work, but I'm nervous. In order to get enough lift, I'll need a lot of speed! Well my dolly is awaiting its first trial - so I'll keep you posted as to what happens.

I'm now thinking that I will need to do a complete redesign of the EDF variant to move the EDF units forward within the fuselage in order to reduce the battery size to a compact 1800mah which I think is about the right size. I positioned the EDF units originally by compiling a spreadsheet (moments about the pivot) based on the 2700 mah battery.

I think it shouldn't be such a difficult exercise, but I wanted to post this as soon as I could to let people know.

My suggestion if you want to build one, build the pusher first or wait to build the EDF one until I've sorted out the COG issues and reduced the weight a bit.

Weather today is pretty poor in the UK, but If it clears, I'll try and do a test flight to see what happens. If I get airbourne, I'm not looking forward to the landing!

I'll keep you posted...
Mar 25, 2013, 02:52 AM
Crash-safe
lessram's Avatar
Hey Clickety
Don't bother about the bugs in the plans, that's what the forum is about: Helping each other and sharing the experience.

Regarding MK 2, release them at your leisure, it's too late for me! I cut my first piece yesterday morning at 5:30 .

I managed to cut a view pieces, until the my "3m 77" derivative clogged (not to be used under 20° C and room temp was 5°).

But I run into a problem with the "fuselage rear bulkhead". I think there is a bug. It intersects with the inner rear exhaust duct.

Just made a little q'n'd drawing to show what I mean.

Another idea of improvement: Centerlines on the "mainwing panel", "fwd fuselage former" and "fuselage bottom panel". Really helps drawing your pusher mount resp aligning the wing / fwd fuselage, so it's really straight.

I hope you don't mind me going over your plans with a toothbrush. If not, I will continue posting plan related issues in your blog, build related items I will post in pusher thread.

Cheers
lessram

PS: PakFa, see top entry in my blog. I'm in the process of building a 50% version (3mm instead of 6mm) for a proof of concept
Mar 25, 2013, 08:29 AM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP

Yf-23


Hi Lessram,

Thanks for your understanding! 5.30!!! you were keen!

Yes I'd forgotten about that collision between pieces. I originally made the prototype about 6 months ago, and I was sure I'd remember the changes I needed to make.... 6 months later my mind was blank!! DOH!

I'm really pleased you are going over my design with a toothbrush. I'm just pleased that someone is interested in my design!

I'll add those changes when I do the revised design!

Cheers

Clickety

Mar 25, 2013, 08:46 AM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP

Yf-23


Hi Lessram

Your PakFa is looking very tidy. I'd love to have a go at building one at some time... Are you going to publish plans?

I'm intending to modify the Launch Dolly for the YF-23, It has two faults.

Firstly it spins off - as the thrust of the engines are too far behind the dolly wheels.
I'm planning to extend the wheelbase put a servo on the dolly and make it steerable. I'm thinking that I could sync two receivers at the same time, so that I could steer the dolly on the rudder function. Never tried that...

Secondly - I can't raise the nose.

I suspect that the problem is that the wing supports run all the way to the back of the wing. meaning that when I apply elevator, the plane can't pivot around its C.o.g. I'm going to cut an angle about an inch behind the C.o.g. so that when I apply up elevator, that it can raise it's nose.

Also I'm going to give it more support on the nose, as it tends to point downwards with full thrust.

I'll give it another go over Easter! I hope that the YF23 will rise up - quite a fitting time considering the season! He is Risen! Hallelujah!

Cheers

Clickety
Mar 25, 2013, 11:19 AM
Crash-safe
lessram's Avatar
Hi Clickety
Plan
Here's the next one: The "fwd fuselage upper side". I wanted to draw the bevel lines myself and detected an oops. The forward section is not big enough to bevel top and bottom. See attachment. The red section would be "empty space". The same when you apply the "rear cockpit bulkhead". Roughly measured, you have to add the "bevel distance" to the bottom of piece.

Pak Fa
Sure I will share the plan when finished. My problem: I construct in Visio (so 2D) and especially curved pieces (like the fwd fuselage upper side) are a pain to construct in 2D. Some pieces I had to draw up 3 times until I got it right !
About 5:30 : Sat/Sun 5:30 - 8:00 is usually the timeslot I can do something for RC.

Maiden
I hope everything will pan out. Good luck and keep us posted ....

Cheers
lessram
Mar 25, 2013, 12:26 PM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Lessram,

Thanks for letting me know!

I think this is because the bevel didn't import on this piece. (a few didn't get them). You are being very helpful! I think by the time you have completed the build I will have everything I need to correct the plans and re-issue.

BTW, in case anyone was wondering why I'm using a dolly rather than undercarriage is because I fly off a grass field and the scale is a bit to small to have wheels big enough for the grass.

Cheers

Clickety.

Mar 26, 2013, 01:54 AM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP
Here's the some of the film footage of my first attempts!

yf-23 Parkjet first attempts (2 min 20 sec)


Next attempted flight scheduled for Easter!
Mar 26, 2013, 01:07 PM
Crash-safe
lessram's Avatar
Clickety
Let me see: Designing yachts, furniture, interiors of motor-homes, rc-planes and EDF powered buggys
Just don't give up and let the ghost fly !!!!!!

I did some more "theoretical build" work today and have suggestion for the construction guide:
To get the back part of the upper forward section right, just use the "forward nacelle assembly base" as a guide. When you align the base the correct way, it will give a perfect guide !. (Though I think the rear bulkhead is a tit too large) But I will let you know as soon as glue and depron meet each other.

Hope the weather will be fine in the UK for a successful maiden

Cheers
lessram
Mar 26, 2013, 04:37 PM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP
I see you found me!! (I also did exteriors of motorhomes!) Just so you know, my work is normally at a more professional level than my parkjet project! This is a bit of fun working in the evenings here and there. Its finding time to squeeze it all in in life!

I mean to persist until she flies - and flies well! I won't give up!. Its great to have someone else to share the journey with! I've ordered some bits for a pusher variant. I've been thinking, If I can't get her to fly with the big battery, then I'll dig out the EDF's and make Proto-1 into a pusher. and Proto 2 will have the EDF's further forward to allow for a smaller battery.

Good idea about getting the shape right on the upper forward section! I had made a mental note to do that, (after I estimated its location on proto-1) but again I forgot to make a note. This was why my model had a few gaps around that area. I'm so pleased you discovered that.

Well I'll be looking at modifying the dolly maybe tommorrow night as my wife is away. The next opportunity I have for a test is probably Monday/Tuesday - weather permitting. I've worked out in my head what to do.

send me pics of your build!!

Cheers

Clickety
Mar 27, 2013, 02:03 PM
Isaiah 40:31
Clickety's Avatar
Thread OP

Project History


Whilst working on the dolly redesign, I thought I'd post some of the design development of the project.

Pic 1 & 2
First, I started by finding some low-res plans off the internet (apologies, I can't remember where). I traced them in Coreldraw to get the main profiles

Pic 3
I imported the vector lines from Coreldraw into Rhino (a 3d CAD program) where I assembled them.

Pic 4
I re-scaled the 3d lines to match the same size as Nic Cara's - downloaded from Parkjets.com

Pic 5
I set about creating the closest I could to the original shape with simple bits of 6mm and 3mm depron.

Pic 6.
I studied photo's extensively to try and make it as scale as possible, yet as simple as possible to build.

Pic 7.
I started to make a simple pusher version.

Pic 8.
I then thought I might as well go the whole way.... I could always make a pusher later.

Pic 9.
I used the Cad software to give me volumes of the foam parts, so I made a spreadsheet in excel to work out the moments about the fulcrum. I had based the given centre of gravity based on two designs I found on RC groups.

Pic 10.
This is vicentel's yf23, that he tells me flew well, but the cog needed to go forward a tad. so I estimated this for my plans.[


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