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Old Mar 07, 2013, 10:23 PM
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For some reason poses that be within the upper levels of the FAI seem to think there are too many world championship aeromodelling events.

Ryan
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 12:11 AM
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ill forward this thread to the MAAC representative for sailplanes - he will most certainly vote against it as he is trying to get Canada to mount and F3B effort.
Old Mar 08, 2013, 01:24 AM
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FYI

For a list of CIAM Soaring Sub-Committee Members listed by Nation:

http://www.fai.org/ciam-about-us/cia...working-groups

Where's Bruno Coming From?
I wonder what feedback Bruno has received to suggest that changes need to be made to reduce the number of soaring classifications? If his assessment is based solely on the last F3B Worlds in China then I suggest his sample size is inadequate or trčs faible!

I expect the forthcoming F3B Worlds in Germany will be a glorious expression of F3B.


regards,
Chris Adams
Old Mar 08, 2013, 01:47 AM
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launch high, go fast
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I'm shocked that this stuff at CIAM is happening. This is obviously
written from a very isolated point of view in terms of consultation,
and I suspect, support from other delegates. I wonder about the
context and the underlying intent??

There is comment about cutting costs of WC, officials,
sustainability, popularity etc.  Surely these events are self
supporting with the huge fees charged, and the cash influx into the
communities WC's are flown at??? What are the FAI (Or CIAM) trying to
do...?

I can almost understand the desire to do this at a FAI level. Much
like a business that has too many product lines that don't provide a
return.

We, and many others, are the people that keep F3b alive!

F3b sits clearly in the criteria for a WC's. World cup x8+, 40+
competitors etc. The longest running FAI glider discipline. A true
development class at the cutting edge!

Looking the wider community, the current diversity of
model aircraft classes is the essence aero modeling.

I will never support the canceling of F3b as an international sport worthy of a WC's or any other class for that matter!

John Skinner
Last edited by luvF3b; Mar 08, 2013 at 01:49 AM. Reason: Put my name with this opinion!
Old Mar 08, 2013, 02:31 AM
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This seems to be a serious threat. I had a short conversation with the Swedish RC soaring controller (F3B and F3K), yesterday. He mentioned that the FAI for a long time has discussing: Volume F3 Radio Control Soaring Model Aircraft and the too many classes – which a person can participate in all classes with essentially the same materials. That it has been a bit difficult for F3B to get organizers for the World Championship.
What I understand, it is not only the French delegate who have this view.

F3B need to find good arguments. For example, F1 Freeflight has 4 WC classes: F1A, F1B, F1C and F1D. At least the first three first contains basically the same kind of skill, as I see it, similar to F3, -B, -J and K.
Arguments about the similarity between classes feels +10 years old and does not reflect where we stand today.

No F3 class will be safe when this is on the agenda...

/Stahl
Old Mar 08, 2013, 06:38 AM
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Interetsing watching this. Here, for the int'l group that probably did not hear it, our soaring national championships were profoundly changed for 2013 by the AMA's Executive Comm. with no notice given until we were at the Nats in 2012 and done to allow basically allow a fun fly to change dates. The decision had been made in fall of 2011 and it was a done deal, at least you have found out about this and can try to mount an effort to stop it. The interesting thing, AMA's President Bob Brown actually cited FAI in their quest to further support "fun events" vs. competition, that should be a red flag to everyone who enjoys competition.

Marc
Old Mar 08, 2013, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvF3b View Post
. I wonder about the
context and the underlying intent??
At the top levels of the FAI there seems to be concern that there are too many World Championships being given out. I don't understand why this is but I have heard this for years from the mid level folks (AKA people who are leaders of a discipline) that interact with the top level folks.

Ryan
Old Mar 08, 2013, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
The 2012 CIAM Bureau Meeting have considered the problem. Kevin Dodd as 2nd Vice-President has been appointed to be the Co-ordinator of the reduction of Championships. An Open Forum will be organised at the next CIAM Plenary Meeting on the basis of a document to be produced by Kevin Dodd.
Nothing to vote
MUCH to discuss this year, and I think in the next.
Old Mar 08, 2013, 07:23 AM
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More about this from the CIAM Bureau Minutes December 2012:
18. Reduction of number of classes or championships (item 23 of April Bureau Meeting)
The CIAM President referred to his emailed outline and time-line. Documents had been prepared by Messrs Metkemeijer, Ramel and the Technical Secretary. Each gave a short overview of his document.
Mr Metkemeijer wished to re-organise the Sub-Committees into nine Sport Committees and six Advisory Committees with the electric classes being re-allocated, based on the task, to the appropriate Sport Committee. Appropriate Championships should be combined and some of the classes involved would probably have to undergo some changes for the Championships to be able to be combined effectively. He also suggested that the Senior and Junior F1 Championships be combined.
Mr Ramel underlined Mr Metkemeijer’s points and his paper was very similar to his one but he still had difficulty in understanding why it is necessary to reduce the number of Championships.
He believes that the F6 classes are isolated and all Sub-committees should develop classes based on attractiveness to spectators and that there should be a specific Promotional Advisory Sub-committee.
The President commented that the General Conference had discussed the possibility for combined airsports championships.
The Technical Secretary had analysed the results from World & Continental Championships from 2000 to 2011 inclusive and presented a table showing the number of competitors and the number of countries for each Championship. She suggested that:
· The current number of countries necessary for a Championship (4) be raised with, say, 10 for Continental Championships in mainland Europe and 12 for World Championships. Continental Championships in other regions should remain at four.
· Change the status of Championships to two levels: World & Continental (Dual Status) for well supported championships; World only for those that never held Continental Championships or frequently cancelled them. In the future when new Championships are again approved by Plenary, these would be given Dual Status for five years after which a review of competitor/country participation would be undertaken.
· Rescind the championship status of those classes identified as having low participation.
· We cease “fast-tracking” Championships.
· We apply a moratorium of, say, four years to allow a Championship rationalisation to take place.
The 2nd Vice-President was appointed to be the Co-ordinator of the Reduction of
Championships project and was tasked to work to the timeline in the CIAM President’s email.
In response to the GBR Delegate it was agreed that nearer to the time of Plenary, the 2nd Vice-President will give some idea of the state of the project so that the GBR delegate could withdraw its proposals if there were Bureau proposals that were an improvement.
Old Mar 08, 2013, 07:30 AM
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Hi all,

F and K are very new as FAI WCH classes with growing popularity.
F3B WCH is heavy for organizers and there is no many bids for it last years, but this is F1 soaring competition and I think that is a madness to kill it.
On the other hand it's impossible to collect B/J/K on one Mega WCH. Many clashes with pilots and it's impossible to put it on one place to fly simultaneously.
I'll be there in April at CIAM meeting as delegate and will do my best to stop this madness.
Old Mar 08, 2013, 09:39 AM
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F1A, F1B and F1C are flown at one single event, a single day of competition for each one with a flyoff for each event usually in the next morning before moving from one event to another, a four day event in total (last day is the flyoff for the third event).
While a single day is too short for an F3B\J\K competition, perhaps it would be possible to do a two or three day competition for each in succession so that you get a 6 to 9 day event for all the F3 soaring classes in a "Soaring Olympics" type of event. For some countries it might be a good idea as you would be able to get helpers from the other soaring classes.

I just hope this doesn't affect the future status of F5J, I really like the format and would very much like to see it as a WC event.

Roy
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:27 AM
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Just simple explanation and let’s call phenomenas by correct names. There is no pressure from FAI CIAM itself to reduce or modify current status of Worldchampionships etc. This activity is solely comming from national associations and mostly by representatives of “old modeller” disciplines which fight for higher part of national budget for them at the expense of the others. Via FAI CIAM it’s clever way to do that. CIAM has duty to react to such proposals.

Ask your CIAM delegate what he/she is presenting at FAI. Maybe you will be surprised…
Last edited by lomcovak.; Mar 08, 2013 at 11:44 AM.
Old Mar 08, 2013, 09:00 PM
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Sorry Pierre but who are those delegates at the CIAM ?
Is it the only thing a simple RC guy can do to lobby against this outrageous proposition ?
Can we send emails to this Bruno Delor (president of the french federation) or directly to the FAI ?

Removing F3B would be like removing Formula 1 to promote pedal kart racing.

The fact that Bruno Delor wrote "F3B and F3J: those two classes are close" shows his total ignorance of those formats and of the commercial benefits they have (how many manufacturers only design F3B/F/J planes ?) and he should be impeached now !

I understand he wants to limit the number of World Championships but his role would be to create and propose new formats that could gather different classes instead of removing one or two that will just lower the number of pilots.


Quote:
Originally Posted by prondel View Post
Please, just make sure that your delegates at the CIAM (in each country) vote against this proposal !

Unfortunately, the proposal comes from my country, and I really want to apologize about this.

French Soaring representatives (F3K, F3F, F3B, F3J) just discovered this text today ( a big thank you Roman !) and of course we have never been informed or consulted about it. This is an unilateral proposal coming from the president of the french aeromodelling federation...

Pierre
Old Mar 08, 2013, 09:48 PM
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A simple solution to this would be to have MANY MANY more competitors in F3B, unfortunately the numbers of competitors is slipping, if I am not mistaken the last team finals in the U.S. had 13 entries, and 3 or 4 of those were there for the sporting aspect of the comp not really meaning to be on the team, in the 80's (and I think 90's) we had triple that number. And no doubt it is an enormous task to sponsor a B comp.
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:02 PM
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We are working participation in the US. The Gator event last weekend had 24 contestants. In Europe it is commonplace to have 100 or so competitors. So F3B around the world is still very popular. I am optimistic we will continue to grow F3B in the US even if it is just one competitor at a time!

Tom


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