Dragon Force DF65 - Page 451 - RC Groups
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Dec 06, 2017, 06:09 PM
Steve Landeau IOM USA 12
ibldrc's Avatar
[QUOTE=lazerb77;38740861]
The rumour pondside today was that they have started the process of freezing hell (post6698).

/QUOTE]

Enlighten us lazer... tell us all about this supposed pondside discussion about how the DF class is considering joining IRSA?

Who was it that you were listening in on?
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Dec 06, 2017, 07:03 PM
Registered User
lazerb77's Avatar
Just a rumour but came from the very top.

One of the famous four, or is it three? (Buzz, in or out or on the fence?) Was making the 500mile round trip from Ilkley Moor baht ' at (spelling may be a little iffy on that one but all cub scouts around the world will understand) to the Southampton University campus for the top secret talks.

OK, it is more likely that an alternative wording to the upward coming 'Dragonfest' in Texas is the main topic of conversation over the lobster souffle, blackpudding and truffles but i would also have a punt on the conversation also encompassing the subject of joining in on the fun of IRSA.

Maybe even a little chat over a brandy and cigar on the subject of running races were it is fine to use ones yacht as a battering ram when rounding marks, you never know ibldrc.
Dec 06, 2017, 07:53 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
As a manufacturer's class.......that ought to be a "hoot" to implement.......given the "extensive experience" IRSA has in trying to make decisions in secret and without input.



Dick L.

RG65 and DF65 # 005
Dec 06, 2017, 10:50 PM
Registered User
Windward RC's Avatar
Dec 07, 2017, 09:50 AM
Registered User
lazerb77's Avatar
Yes, your probably right, probably best that the class stays as the starter class in radio sailing and leave the 65 class as the smallest class at in the Internationally recognised class's of yacht.
Last edited by lazerb77; Dec 07, 2017 at 12:09 PM.
Dec 07, 2017, 10:13 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerb77
Yes, your probably right, probably best that the class stays as the starter class into radio sailing and leave the 65 class as the smallest class in the International class yachts.

This way will also allow the cartel to introduce whatever into the class to keep the bucks rolling in.

A bit like theft from multi- storey car parks, wrong on all levels.

Best to just ignore this person and the constant snarky, juvenile remarks.
Dec 07, 2017, 10:26 AM
Registered User
Windward RC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apquack
Best to just ignore this person and the constant snarky, juvenile remarks.
Just keep reporting him , click the yellow triangle in the upper right hand corner of the post... do it enough and hopefully the moderators will get the message

Hes been trolling these boats for over a year now...
Dec 07, 2017, 12:17 PM
Registered User
lazerb77's Avatar
Never said a wrong word about the DF65, go back and check! Indeed sail mine most weeks with the RG65 fleet at the club and love every minute of it.

My message is that i think it wrong of the rules committee which is appointed by the manufacture to not at least be voted in or indeed have at least a term of office in the position, the names of the committee members are not even published in the rules of the DF but these people can bring out 6 versions of the same boat and extra rigs to boost profits whenever they wish.

Now you give me a good reason why this undemocratic system is correct without just posting 'these are the most knowledgable people within the class'
Dec 07, 2017, 12:30 PM
Registered User
RCphotoguy's Avatar
Dec 07, 2017, 01:10 PM
Registered User
Windward RC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCphotoguy
Exactly right Bob, I guess people can judge for themselves.
Dec 07, 2017, 01:26 PM
Registered User
lazerb77's Avatar
As i expected from you Windward, sarcasm but no defence to the undemocratic system or answer to the question as you have not got one.
Dec 07, 2017, 02:01 PM
Registered User
Windward RC's Avatar
Not for you, you incredible troll. But i will go ahead and give you the same one you have been getting... yet again

Its a manufacturers class, the rules are decided and adjudicated by the manufacturers representatives as has been explained to you like a 5 year old child.

The DF class rules are completely undemocratic and completely arbitrary, which in this case is not a bad thing. It doesn't NEED a defense. These rules keep the class rules under strict control, yet have a process flexible enough to accommodate change and keep the classes fun and competitive. Nearly every change that has arisen has actually cost the manufacturer more revenue than it generates, so your characterization of a "cartel" is laughable. Retooled CNC moulds, improved parts, better sails are not "money makers" if they wanted to do that they would do what other classes have done and keep things the same, and keep punching them out by the thousands at far less cost... and also not keep the classes fun to sail and easy to build, by making improvements to the kit that keep the boat performance and quality good, yet maintain a level playing field for the previous versions

The UK & USA COAs were specifically formed with this arrangement, were accepted by their national authorities and are perfectly content to let it stay that way, if for no other reason than to avoid the ridiculous mess of RC sailing politics, and dinosaur-like bureaucracy people like you seem to love to envelop themselves in and also drag their classes with them. I guess they learned after years of seeing how other classes have been dragged through the mud, and actually DEVOLVED in many cases that there must be a better way to effectively handle class rules, especially since these are not custom built boats that need that kind of bureaucracy.

If someone, basically anyone wants to make a suggestion to the Rules committee about possible changes , it is simple, and very often if it makes sense, it is implemented... immediately. With out any frippery or 2 years rules change process, etc etc.

Apparently it is working fine, because in their respective national entities the DF class boats are often the fastest growing classes , and also generating tons of NEW association members for those national authorities who embrace the classes.

People certainly have a choice of which boat they want to sail and how they want to sail it.. and based one the results in every country that is sailing them they are speaking loudly in favor of these boats and this rules process. The only ones with an issue about it are the ones who are haters... like yourself, usually people with an agenda about their own classes they sail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerb77
As i expected from you Windward, sarcasm but no defence to the undemocratic system or answer to the question as you have not got one.
Last edited by Windward RC; Dec 07, 2017 at 02:06 PM. Reason: added info
Dec 07, 2017, 03:47 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
gpzy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windward RC
Not for you, you incredible troll. But i will go ahead and give you the same one you have been getting... yet again

Its a manufacturers class, the rules are decided and adjudicated by the manufacturers representatives as has been explained to you like a 5 year old child.

The DF class rules are completely undemocratic and completely arbitrary, which in this case is not a bad thing. It doesn't NEED a defense. These rules keep the class rules under strict control, yet have a process flexible enough to accommodate change and keep the classes fun and competitive. Nearly every change that has arisen has actually cost the manufacturer more revenue than it generates, so your characterization of a "cartel" is laughable. Retooled CNC moulds, improved parts, better sails are not "money makers" if they wanted to do that they would do what other classes have done and keep things the same, and keep punching them out by the thousands at far less cost... and also not keep the classes fun to sail and easy to build, by making improvements to the kit that keep the boat performance and quality good, yet maintain a level playing field for the previous versions

The UK & USA COAs were specifically formed with this arrangement, were accepted by their national authorities and are perfectly content to let it stay that way, if for no other reason than to avoid the ridiculous mess of RC sailing politics, and dinosaur-like bureaucracy people like you seem to love to envelop themselves in and also drag their classes with them. I guess they learned after years of seeing how other classes have been dragged through the mud, and actually DEVOLVED in many cases that there must be a better way to effectively handle class rules, especially since these are not custom built boats that need that kind of bureaucracy.

If someone, basically anyone wants to make a suggestion to the Rules committee about possible changes , it is simple, and very often if it makes sense, it is implemented... immediately. With out any frippery or 2 years rules change process, etc etc.

Apparently it is working fine, because in their respective national entities the DF class boats are often the fastest growing classes , and also generating tons of NEW association members for those national authorities who embrace the classes.

People certainly have a choice of which boat they want to sail and how they want to sail it.. and based one the results in every country that is sailing them they are speaking loudly in favor of these boats and this rules process. The only ones with an issue about it are the ones who are haters... like yourself, usually people with an agenda about their own classes they sail...
Good night now !
Dec 07, 2017, 05:04 PM
Registered User
So, I still don't understand the reason why Wor... oh never mind, I'm just going out and sail my DF's and have fun.
Dec 07, 2017, 07:40 PM
"consumerwil"
denisoni1's Avatar
Finally after 6,762 posts, The DF65 Class explained... Finally! Should flowchart all conversations right back to #6762, maybe call it the 6762 explanation?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Windward RC
Not for you, you incredible troll. But i will go ahead and give you the same one you have been getting... yet again

Its a manufacturers class, the rules are decided and adjudicated by the manufacturers representatives as has been explained to you like a 5 year old child.

The DF class rules are completely undemocratic and completely arbitrary, which in this case is not a bad thing. It doesn't NEED a defense. These rules keep the class rules under strict control, yet have a process flexible enough to accommodate change and keep the classes fun and competitive. Nearly every change that has arisen has actually cost the manufacturer more revenue than it generates, so your characterization of a "cartel" is laughable. Retooled CNC moulds, improved parts, better sails are not "money makers" if they wanted to do that they would do what other classes have done and keep things the same, and keep punching them out by the thousands at far less cost... and also not keep the classes fun to sail and easy to build, by making improvements to the kit that keep the boat performance and quality good, yet maintain a level playing field for the previous versions

The UK & USA COAs were specifically formed with this arrangement, were accepted by their national authorities and are perfectly content to let it stay that way, if for no other reason than to avoid the ridiculous mess of RC sailing politics, and dinosaur-like bureaucracy people like you seem to love to envelop themselves in and also drag their classes with them. I guess they learned after years of seeing how other classes have been dragged through the mud, and actually DEVOLVED in many cases that there must be a better way to effectively handle class rules, especially since these are not custom built boats that need that kind of bureaucracy.

If someone, basically anyone wants to make a suggestion to the Rules committee about possible changes , it is simple, and very often if it makes sense, it is implemented... immediately. With out any frippery or 2 years rules change process, etc etc.

Apparently it is working fine, because in their respective national entities the DF class boats are often the fastest growing classes , and also generating tons of NEW association members for those national authorities who embrace the classes.

People certainly have a choice of which boat they want to sail and how they want to sail it.. and based one the results in every country that is sailing them they are speaking loudly in favor of these boats and this rules process. The only ones with an issue about it are the ones who are haters... like yourself, usually people with an agenda about their own classes they sail...


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