Dragon Force DF65 - Page 4 - RC Groups
Shop our Airplanes Products Drone Products Sales
Thread Tools
Feb 27, 2013, 07:06 AM
Registered User
Merkava

the differences in the pre-production ones and the production ones will be as follows :-

sheeting and rigging lines changed to non-stretchy dyneema/braid.

main sheet attachment to be two lines and a ring instead of central deck eye.

different hatch covers

rubber tubes for sheeting adjustments

different sheeting attachment hardware

hope this helps in understanding what is happening

regards

Mark
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Feb 27, 2013, 07:32 AM
Registered User
Merkava's Avatar
My issue isn't so much the 'what is happening'.. I think the way it was done is probably poor at best. IMHO i think Joysway need to think long and hard about how these boats were sold with no apparent information that they are not final product. and do have cosmetic flaws etc. If they are being sold 'cheap' ok well that is ok.. but who knows... Guess all will become clear when the May edition arrives.

I guess I'd ask how many 'pre-production' boats did Joysway build. I think a more likely and believable version is that they ramped up production (jumping the gun) before finalising the design and have now dumped product that isn't to final spec.

Some may say that is fair enough and they can do this... I think it is a pretty bad way to introduce a product to the market, considering nothing is mentioned about this until it comes up online. I just think if it were my business I'd be a little more concerned about how my company could be percieved over decisions like this.
Feb 27, 2013, 01:12 PM
Registered User
Hello, I'm new!

I've wanted to buy an RC sailing boat for a while and the Dragon seems to be the perfect balance of quality/spec/fun/price, its great to hear all about it! I do wish there were more posts about how it sails and how easy is to build than about cosmetic issues in pre-production discounted models though.




I will buy one when it comes out in May, and really look forward to getting my first taste of RC Sailing!

ME
Feb 27, 2013, 01:29 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinimumEffort
Hello, I'm new!

I've wanted to buy an RC sailing boat for a while and the Dragon seems to be the perfect balance of quality/spec/fun/price, its great to hear all about it! I do wish there were more posts about how it sails and how easy is to build than about cosmetic issues in pre-production discounted models though.

I will buy one when it comes out in May, and really look forward to getting my first taste of RC Sailing!

ME
I am sure you will enjoy RC sailing once you get started. I'd stand by for a bit, at least until the manufacturing folks get the bugs worked out of this one.

If I am going to doing "beta" testing on my dime, there should be some pay off for doing that. Have never liked being an unknowing test rabbit!

Boomer
Feb 27, 2013, 02:32 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
gpzy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1
I am sure you will enjoy RC sailing once you get started. I'd stand by for a bit, at least until the manufacturing folks get the bugs worked out of this one.

If I am going to doing "beta" testing on my dime, there should be some pay off for doing that. Have never liked being an unknowing test rabbit!

Boomer
Have you gotten your hands on one yet? You are very opinionated.
Feb 27, 2013, 05:46 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzy
Have you gotten your hands on one yet? You are very opinionated.
Gpzy Not really! However on some things I have an opinion which might be firm - Spent my life in manufacturing sector and worked very hard to make sure our customers got the best value for their money and if there was a issue - we'd take care of it. Don't think that's out of line.

To answer your question, no I don't have one but may at a point down stream. I am very interested in new boats and I think those here who know me know I am fair and open. I am not putting the supplier down, just stated how I feel about that aspect - that's all.
No big deal.
Enjoy.
Boomer
Feb 27, 2013, 05:55 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
gpzy's Avatar
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Last edited by gpzy; Feb 27, 2013 at 06:43 PM.
Feb 27, 2013, 06:01 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1
Gpzy Not really! However on some things I have an opinion which might be firm - Spent my life in manufacturing sector and worked very hard to make sure our customers got the best value for their money and if there was a issue - we'd take care of it. Don't think that's out of line.

To answer your question, no I don't have one but may at a point down stream. I am very interested in new boats and I think those here who know me know I am fair and open. I am not putting the supplier down, just stated how I feel about that aspect - that's all.
No big deal.
Enjoy.
Boomer
A+

Would be nice to see a few vids, just hope they dont sink or it will be the icein on the cake!

Thats a good few changes that are being made on top of the hull mark problem and other problems that might come up when people use the boat

P.s i wont say reviews of this boat just yet because it would be a review of a boat thats wronge and shoudnt of been sold lol

Dan
Feb 27, 2013, 06:32 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzy
I would be more likely to hear what you have to say off you actually had one in your hands.
Just saying!
Gpzy
I am not sure what you have read into my comments? I am confused. I started this particular thread because of my interest in learning more about this boat.

My observations we more questions than statements. My view of people receiving boats that might be 2nds, or flawed or beta versions without the seller so stating is not in any way unreasonable. That is it in a nut shell.

Some of the fellows that received their boats with that big scratch in the bow, I am pretty sure would prefer to have a boat without it. The upgrades, changes, mods all that is really good stuff, and nice to see folks interested in making it the best they can.

I have shared my questions and thoughts about this boat with Lorraine and Mike @ RC Yachtsinfo@rcyachts.org.uk. I'm on their mailing list and hope to be receiving updates as that information becomes available.

If I get one, I'll be sure to let you know. It's all good.

Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Feb 27, 2013 at 07:24 PM.
Feb 27, 2013, 06:52 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
gpzy's Avatar
Sorry Boomer. I will keep an eye on this thread and any reviews that might come along.
Feb 27, 2013, 10:38 PM
Registered User
Merkava's Avatar
Have one update.. sent a pic to Joysway.. they haven't replied yet. The retailer has already replied and has said mine seems worse than the couple / few he inspected in stock. The point is they all apparently have this scratch (the retailer has said the same as Andrew earlier in this thread) perhaps the mould (tooling) has a mark that will need or has been fixed for what I now call the "May boats" or final production ones. I am assuming that the photo's of the boat online reflect many of the changes Mark above has pointed out (ie. two lines and ring instead of central deck eye).

The hatch changes.. not so sure about (the boat depicted in many of the online images appears to have two forward hatch covers as well). I am not sure and perhaps Mark can shed some more light on this ie. is that the hatch changes or is it that and different hatch material or covers etc? I know that the main hatch (the only one on the DF65 i have here) appears the same as the one depicted in shots online. It does not however, have the two forward hatches like the online depicted boat.

My point is what Boomer1 has said. These boats when released to market probably should have been clearly marked as not actually being the final product. There is a difference between a design change a year or two down the track and a 'limited release' of product that isn't final and even more so, has obvious quality (even if cosmetic) issues in other areas.

Maybe it's just me but when I perform my work.. I won't accept 'sub standard' from myself, our clients wouldn't and nor should they and I apply that to anything including purchases. I really don't care if the product is $10.00 or $10,000. If it isn't ready for sale.. fix before it sells. If you do sell for lack of a better term (2nds or non-final product) then label and market it as exactly that. Otherwise it is only a matter of time before it will probably bight you in the a*#.

I have been offered an exchange for another boat (which is being contemplated) and I'll update if Joysway have any reply to the photo sent to them. I also did suggest that if they were releasing 'beta' or non-final product (especially as it was done only in two locals) as mentioned here then the items should have been clearly marketed as just that even perhaps mentioning they are at a discount price for that very reason. Let people / customers decide if they want to purchase based on that fact and being aware that 8 weeks down the track an 'improved' revised version (the final version) is actually coming.
Last edited by Merkava; Feb 27, 2013 at 10:50 PM.
Feb 28, 2013, 01:07 AM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkava

My point is what Boomer1 has said. These boats when released to market probably should have been clearly marked as not actually being the final product. There is a difference between a design change a year or two down the track and a 'limited release' of product that isn't final and even more so, has obvious quality (even if cosmetic) issues in other areas.

Maybe it's just me but when I perform my work.. I won't accept 'sub standard' from myself, our clients wouldn't and nor should they and I apply that to anything including purchases. I really don't care if the product is $10.00 or $10,000. If it isn't ready for sale.. fix before it sells. If you do sell for lack of a better term (2nds or non-final product) then label and market it as exactly that. Otherwise it is only a matter of time before it will probably bight you in the a*#.

I have been offered an exchange for another boat (which is being contemplated) and I'll update if Joysway have any reply to the photo sent to them. I also did suggest that if they were releasing 'beta' or non-final product (especially as it was done only in two locals) as mentioned here then the items should have been clearly marketed as just that even perhaps mentioning they are at a discount price for that very reason. Let people / customers decide if they want to purchase based on that fact and being aware that 8 weeks down the track an 'improved' revised version (the final version) is actually coming.
All I can say is send it back & get a refund...

Australian Consumer Law...

Wait & decide if you want another DF65 later down the track..

Possibly double the $$$'s from LHS...

Other than that, as us Ozzie's say "Suck it up & get on with it..."

I think I can live with a little cosmetic scratch, within a week it will have company..

Feb 28, 2013, 01:45 AM
Registered User
Merkava's Avatar
Waboats.. have no real issue with the retailer.. they have been cool. offered exchange including return postage. I haven't even discussed refund (though it crossing my mind atm). just tossing up the options atm. Is the 'may model' going to be more expensive.. ie. 199 or 249. and yeah love taps will happen, only good thing with sailing they aren't lawn darts etc like aircraft .

As to "sucking it up, and getting on with it" .. I aint loosing any sleep over it. Know my rights under Aus consumer law, so if i decide to return, something will take it's place. Maybe just wont be a Joysway product is all .

Living with the scratch isn't the issue.. it's the principal of the situation and the lack of transparency in how these boats were (are) being sold. I believe it's a downward slope once one goes.. "oh well it's not too bad..etc...etc..." How far do consumers etc. let things go once stuff starts going this way, where is the cut-off point.

Anyway.. I'm off for a cold one.
Feb 28, 2013, 03:20 AM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkava
Waboats.. have no real issue with the retailer.. they have been cool. offered exchange including return postage. I haven't even discussed refund (though it crossing my mind atm). just tossing up the options atm. Is the 'may model' going to be more expensive.. ie. 199 or 249. and yeah love taps will happen, only good thing with sailing they aren't lawn darts etc like aircraft .

As to "sucking it up, and getting on with it" .. I aint loosing any sleep over it. Know my rights under Aus consumer law, so if i decide to return, something will take it's place. Maybe just wont be a Joysway product is all .

Living with the scratch isn't the issue.. it's the principal of the situation and the lack of transparency in how these boats were (are) being sold. I believe it's a downward slope once one goes.. "oh well it's not too bad..etc...etc..." How far do consumers etc. let things go once stuff starts going this way, where is the cut-off point.

Anyway.. I'm off for a cold one.
Merkava

If you know the rules in OZ, then this is an issue for the retailer.. They purchased the Bulk Lot at a reduced price & selling at the low end.

You expect perfection for sub $150.. So get an exchange & see if they are ALL the same..

Have to say I still can't see the scratch too well in the photos.

If it is a matter of principal (sic) then act on your beliefs..

Have to say I got a bit tired with the whining..

You gets what you pay for sometimes...

The other thread on the DF65 going since Nov 2012 made no illusuion that this was a prototype... Release date was always later...

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1779323
Feb 28, 2013, 04:19 AM
Registered User
Merkava's Avatar
Waboats.. price is irrelevant.. has the retailer said they purchased a bulk lot anywhere or mentioned the issue(s). Cost is relevant to the issue at hand. If you purchased any item lets pick a mbl phone for $100 got it home and it had an issue you'd just go 'Ah well. what do you expect for $100?? I think the majority of people would have an issue (that is the point being made nothing more). I haven't seen any confirmed retail price for the final may edition. I won't be surprised if it does retail for more but the quality of an item isn't cost dependent.. something doesn't have to cost and arm and a leg to be perfect, plain and simple.

As for whining .. Well I ain't whining like i said I am not loosing any sleep over the matter. I believe I said in one of my first posts I'd probably hang onto the boat and refinish it, and that love taps would happen etc... etc... (once again still doesn't change the potential issue at hand).

Prototype ... as mentioned in the other thread (same thing) where was it mentioned anywhere that prototypes were available at retail until mentioned in this thread. Only point(s) I am making.

Now stumbled across this on tube today.. haven't noticed it posted on here...

rg 65 dragon force and seawind test (2 min 14 sec)


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold Dragon OSD V2 and Dragon Commander Bryan's Flyin FPV Equipment (FS/W) 10 Feb 19, 2013 07:36 PM
For Sale .28 Ofna Force in near new,not broken in with extras redlined_b16a Cars - Trucks and Parts (FS/W) 1 Jan 18, 2013 10:16 AM
Discussion How long does it take to train a military force ? radix2 Life, The Universe, and Politics 25 Jan 16, 2013 09:05 PM
Sold Seawind AMYA Class Yacht!!! $400 OBO PingChandlerPong Boats (FS/W) 0 Jan 03, 2013 06:18 PM
Sold ***SOLD***Turnigy 100A K-Force with 2 in 1 box gregory.da Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 1 Jan 02, 2013 12:22 AM