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Jan 07, 2018, 04:37 AM
Registered User
Flynn203's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintr
Quoting ChooChoo (Rick) from the other thread
If you haven't done so, you might want to follow the setup steps in the New User's Guide from here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=354219
+1 on that, very helpful.
Last edited by Flynn203; Jan 09, 2018 at 03:41 AM.
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Jan 08, 2018, 08:33 AM
Registered User
Bill Glover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by copertop
I would like to have my plane "hang on its prop".
Is this plane intended for 3D flying? May not be physically possible otherwise.
Latest blog entry: Eachine QX65 FPV quad review
Jan 08, 2018, 12:34 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover
Is this plane intended for 3D flying? May not be physically possible otherwise.
If you put a big enough motor on it ...
It does take a lot of Watts per pound, and if the control surfaces don't get enough prop wash, and/or are too small, it won't hang there long.
Jan 08, 2018, 02:25 PM
Registered User
Bill Glover's Avatar
Yes that's what I was getting at. I've lost count of people claiming their planes with ailerons outside the propwash (or sometimes without ailerons at all) will sustain a hover
Latest blog entry: Eachine QX65 FPV quad review
Jan 08, 2018, 04:34 PM
Michael
Granted that, immediately outside the propwash, the relative wind over the outside aileron surfaces is low, but, with enough throw and settings available in the Guardian, I have not had a problem holding a reasonable hover in, e.g, an eFlite Ultra Stick 25e ("US", modified for interior flaps, exterior ailerons.)

For grins, I do like to hover my models and have not had a problem with lack of control on the part of the Guardian; regardless of plane design / control surface size/placement. I have my master gain on a knob and have bumped it a bit if I find that the roll tendency isn't being adequately controlled. E.g., I usually fly with about 40% master gain and might bump it to 50 - 60%, but not required all that often (never needed on the US.)

Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover
Yes that's what I was getting at. I've lost count of people claiming their planes with ailerons outside the propwash (or sometimes without ailerons at all) will sustain a hover
Jan 08, 2018, 05:06 PM
Registered User
Bill Glover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake6515
Granted that, immediately outside the propwash, the relative wind over the outside aileron surfaces is low, but, with enough throw and settings available in the Guardian, I have not had a problem holding a reasonable hover in, e.g, an eFlite Ultra Stick 25e ("US", modified for interior flaps, exterior ailerons.)

For grins, I do like to hover my models and have not had a problem with lack of control on the part of the Guardian; regardless of plane design / control surface size/placement. I have my master gain on a knob and have bumped it a bit if I find that the roll tendency isn't being adequately controlled. E.g., I usually fly with about 40% master gain and might bump it to 50 - 60%, but not required all that often (never needed on the US.)

Michael
In a genuine hover the aircraft is stationary, and there is no airflow at all over control surfaces that are outside the propwash. So it doesn't matter how much throw there is - they have no effect.

Outdoors with a bit of breeze you can simulate a hover with the aircraft angled forward into the wind. It's then flying forward (slowly), but appears stationary relative to the ground. This can be done by most models that have enough power (even just rudder/elevator ones, for a few seconds), but it's not an actual hover.
Latest blog entry: Eachine QX65 FPV quad review
Jan 09, 2018, 12:00 PM
Michael
There is propwash over the surfaces, outside the prop diameter; albeit diminished. The air doesn't all of a sudden stop moving at the limit of the prop diameter...

That's how I was able to achieve a stationary hover with narrow tip ailerons well outside the "full" propwash; breeze or dead calm. I tested this by disabling and/or reducing the master gain and it is clear that (1) I am not sufficiently quick enough on the controls, but (2) there is sufficient control authority for the Guardian to compensate. If the Guardian can compensate, then there has to be some air moving over the surfaces...

Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover
In a genuine hover the aircraft is stationary, and there is no airflow at all over control surfaces that are outside the propwash. So it doesn't matter how much throw there is - they have no effect.

Outdoors with a bit of breeze you can simulate a hover with the aircraft angled forward into the wind. It's then flying forward (slowly), but appears stationary relative to the ground. This can be done by most models that have enough power (even just rudder/elevator ones, for a few seconds), but it's not an actual hover.
Jan 09, 2018, 05:20 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
The amount of propwash reaching the ailerons depends on wing design (tapered or straight LE) and how far out they are, so you can't assume it will work for every model.
Last edited by Wintr; Jan 09, 2018 at 05:27 PM.
Jan 09, 2018, 09:12 PM
Michael
Correct, I was merely pointing out that it is possible and, given my admittedly inferior skills, not all that hard to handle (the Guardian assumes a lot of the work load.)

If you ever see a smoke wind tunnel test, you can see that the propwash fans out; i.e., it doesn't go straight back moving a "column" of air. This effect is especially pronounced as we have been discussing a hover maneuver. Admittedly, as I am older than dirt and my reaction times are slower, I lean towards more diameter and less pitch for my props, but in the case of my example test mule (the Ultra Stick 25e), the straight wing and narrow ailerons are well outside the prop diameter...

Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintr
The amount of propwash reaching the ailerons depends on wing design (tapered or straight LE) and how far out they are, so you can't assume it will work for every model.
May 24, 2018, 12:09 PM
Registered User

Guardian 2D


got a question after suffering a near destroyed wing on maiden, and the guardian is due to go in a much nicer C1 chaser wing soon , when i flew the last wing it started of sweet, did a couple of laps round the field then for no apparent reason it just nose dived into the ground, no real harm so dusted it of and put it back up, couple of laps and same thing happened but from more height, i had no control over it and bang, nose in, lots of damage, i might not have waited 15 secs after powering up also the bec in the model is only 2 amp powering guardian and RX plus 2 9G servo.....grateful for any input here
May 25, 2018, 05:22 AM
I got FPV fever
CurrentDude's Avatar
Please have a read in my Blog and you'll find a similar situation and solution to it. I wrote it a few years ago and if I remember correctly, it has to do with changing the mode from 2D to 3D in air.

Cheers


PS. Scroll down a few pages to see the solution.
May 25, 2018, 06:07 AM
Where did that tree come from
kid at 55's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentDude
Please have a read in my Blog and you'll find a similar situation and solution to it. I wrote it a few years ago and if I remember correctly, it has to do with changing the mode from 2D to 3D in air.

Cheers


PS. Scroll down a few pages to see the solution.
Thanks for posting. Here the problem I was having yesterday.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ostcount=14486
May 25, 2018, 06:27 AM
Registered User
czorzella's Avatar

EagleTree GUARDIAN 2D/3D "Do"s & "Don't"s list


Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentDude
Please have a read in my Blog and you'll find a similar situation and solution to it. I wrote it a few years ago and if I remember correctly, it has to do with changing the mode from 2D to 3D in air.

Cheers
😊

PS. Scroll down a few pages to see the solution.


Here is the direct link to the above mentioned solution: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...6&d=1365946232

Carlos
May 25, 2018, 11:16 AM
Registered User
I guess none of the above posts relate to the trouble i am having as i dont toggle the mode switch, just leave it in 2D.....well that was what i was doing till it crashed and destroyed the plane
Jul 19, 2018, 03:35 AM
BFMA #13, aka Rogue 13
mongo's Avatar
tam jet F-16
no ailerons, just all moving tailerons.
i am guessing that the g can do this mix.
guessing aileron in to g and elevator into g.
one taileron servo out of g at ?
other taileron out at?


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