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Feb 22, 2013, 05:51 PM
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Mr Big Head's Avatar
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Help!

Torque 2830-1095 Phoenix ESC problems


Just finished up my PA Addiction and was going to maiden but not to be today it seems. Here is my problem. The motor is rated for 277 watts and 23 amps constant. with a 10x4.7 I hooked up my watt meter and with a fully charged 1800 30C it pulled 19 amps and and 220 watts with that prop and it seemed very anemic. I changed to an 11x4.7 prop with a little increase in power but still anemic. I used my Castle link to set it up and I changed it from med to high timing and fast start up. No change. I switched the controller out for a Phoenix 45 and no change. Changed the settings in that ESC. Same watts, still anemic.
I switched out the controller to an eflite 30 amp pro out of a PZ T-28 and 450 watts on the 11x4.7. Too many I realize but the prop was still the 11x4.7. Not anemic at all. Super powerful.
I have updated the firmware to the latest from Castle in the Phoenix controllers. Any ideas? I would really like to run the Castle for it's smooth throttle. I have set the controllers both to outrunner mode with no change and tried the pwm12 which is standard with no change.
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Feb 22, 2013, 06:16 PM
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Mr Big Head's Avatar
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I just changed from auto calibrate to fixed end points per there instructions and the problem got worse!
Feb 22, 2013, 06:46 PM
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Just set the controller to factory default settings except for brake disabled, no change.
Feb 23, 2013, 08:14 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
The reason you're not getting much help here is that those motors have been off the market for some time now, I found some specs for your motor here in an old thread:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...47&postcount=6

specs..
Motor Specifications
Windings: 30Turns
RPM/V (KV): 1095
Idle Current (RI): .075
IO (@8.4V):A 1.10
Weight: 2.46oz 70 G
Suggested Pack:3 Cell
Constant Amps 15-18
Peak Amps (15 Sec): 25
Suggested Prop: APC 10*4.5 or APC 11*4.7
Peak Watts: 277

The bottom line is that it is a 70 gram motor and the 3 Watts per gram rule of thumb says that you cannot reasonably expect it to handle more than 210 Watts or so of input power at full throttle. The 277W peak in the specs is almost 4 Watts per gram and it is not going to be able to do that continuously. It will overheat.

If you want more power you need more weight in the motor, it is that simple.

If you want to see some candidate motors go to the prop database at flybrushless.com and look at the props you want to use. Then look at the motor that produced the data to see the input voltage, motor weight, and Kv ratings and you can see what will turn the prop for you.

The testing data there does not take the motor to excessive temperatures, they back off at 60C or so when they are testing and you should not let motors get any hotter than that in use. At about 54C/130F the base plate will be so hot you cannot keep a finger on it.

Jack
Feb 23, 2013, 11:17 AM
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Mr Big Head's Avatar
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Hey thanks so much for your reply. The motor is still sold by Extreme Flight. The motor will handle more than rated watts as it will be used in the Addiction for 3D and not constant full throttle operation. I am just getting ready to get into it again this morning. With the Phoenix ESCs I tried even though the motor hit 200 plus watts on the meter you could tell by the sound something was wrong. Slight pulsing and very mushy feeling. With the E-Flight 30 amp pro the motor ripped up to full throttle instantly with what I would guess to be double the thrust.. I did buy both Phoenix ESCs used so they may have a problem but I doubt it. I am thinking it has something to do with the settings I am programming into them. The thing is I have never seen this problem before. So far I am stumped. I am going to check the resistance on my solder joints but I hold little hope that that will be the issue.
Feb 23, 2013, 11:37 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Do you have the Castle Link USB programer and the software installed on a PC? If so make sure you have the latest version of the Castle Link software and then let it check the firmware in the ESCs. Even if it says you are already on the latest firmware, go ahead and let it re-flash the firmware again. That will give a fresh load and reset the ESC to defaults. Then give it a try that way.

The only setting I ever change on my Phoenix ESCs for use on airplanes is to set a LVC cutoff voltage for the A123 packs I use sometimes and to turn the brake on or off as needed.

The is really no need to mess with throttle endpoints either on the ESC or in the settings on the TX if you calibrate the throttle at startup. To do that, starting with the battery disconnected (both flight and receiver pack if using two packs), do this:

1 - Set all the TX settings for the throttle servo back to defaults. If you are using a Futaba TX you will have to have the throttle servo set to reverse instead normal.

2 - With the TX on, move the throttle to about mid travel

3 - Power up the plane connecting the battery pack or both packs if using two of them.

4 - You will hear a beep or two but it will not arm, then move the throttle to full throttle and wait for it to play a short tune.

5 - Then move the throttle to fully closed and it will play another short tune and then arm itself and be ready to fly.

If you get in the habit of doing that start up process you'll never have any need to mess with throttle calibration or throttle endpoints either on the ESC or the TX. Nor will you ever lose the full or zero throttle setting during a flight unless there is a power interruption on the plane.

That is what has worked for me.

Jack
Feb 23, 2013, 01:31 PM
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I just plugged an E-Flite 40 amp Sensorless ESC with a dual bec circuit. Motor ripped. I will not run this though as I want more volts to the servos and it does not state the output or the amps the bec is capable of. Also although full throttle is great the response throughout feels mushy and soft, not crisp. I am going to bite the bullet and run a Turnigy AE45 which I can program to run 6 volts to the servos and that has a 4 amp bec. It weighs 3/4 ounce more which I do not like!
Feb 23, 2013, 11:25 PM
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Problem solved. Removed the Castle and replaced it with the Turnigy AE45 set to 6 volts. Unbelievable how much faster the servos got with the PA super short horns. I cannot wait to fly this plane! The 45 amper was not so much overkill after all. It pulled 430 watts and 39 amps with an 11x4.7SF but I settled on an 11x3.8 at 33 amps and 390 watts. The plane came in at 27 ounces RTF with a gens 1800. It should be pretty snappy!
I am thinking that the problem with the Castles was the update to there latest firmware. I did it to both of them however I think the first one did it before the update too. My aging mind cannot recall for sure. I am calling Castle when they are back in and pick thee brains.
Last edited by Mr Big Head; Feb 23, 2013 at 11:30 PM.
Feb 24, 2013, 08:23 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Being able to talk to a human being is a wonderful thing with the CC ESCs. When you call, leave a message and they will get back to you shortly. At least that has been my experience and it seems to work well as far as you getting the callbacks from the right person.

If the problem is the later firmware I seem to remember that CC will let you fall back to earlier firmware versions if you want.

It is a wonderful thing to be able to get upgrades, talk to humans, and things like that. For me, hat is what makes it worth more money to buy the CC stuff. There is a lot of other good stuff out there that is cheaper but it usually means no upgrades and no support.

Jack


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