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Dec 29, 2003, 04:04 PM
Thread OP

Exceading recomended control throws?


I was looking to get my Dazzler to perform more wildly, and decided to put the control rods all the way down on the surfaces.

Then I thought about the recomended throws. I don't mind having the rudder and aileron thorws larger then the recomended ones, but what about the elevator? I don't want to give full up and have the wing fold nicly into the fuse....

The recomended throws on the elev are 19 mm (high). Right now I have them at around 25-32mm (I've not got a throw mesuring tool, so I used a triangle). Would that be OK?

Thanks,
Erez
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Dec 30, 2003, 12:29 AM
Flying RC since 1974
Assuming your Dazzler handles about the same as my Uproar, and has about the same structure (I think they are the same airplane except for the turtle deck on the Dazzler), I think you will stall the elevator long before you snap the wing. But there is something else to consider.

I never much pay attention to the recommended throws after the first few flights, I just keep dialing them up until I like the performance, and in doing so, I have found that you can go too far. Eventually, you can reach a point were additional throw makes the model LESS responsive at the extreme end of the travel, because a stalled control surface is no longer really controlling attitude, it's just increasing drag. Obviously, with more throw the model will be twitchier around neutral, so expo becomes really valuable.

I don't have the reflexes, or the practice time to fly 3d, so I don't know this for sure, but I suspect that there is no extra maneuverability to be gained beyond 45 degrees of throw, even in the low speed, high alpha maneuvers.
Dec 30, 2003, 02:34 AM
Thread OP
Hi ctdahle, thanks for the reply.

The serfice is definatly below 45 degrees.
I forgot to mention what I did:
Before, I had all the rods at the outer-most hole. I mesured the max throws (100% Duel rates, 100% servo throw), then put the rods in the inner-most holes, and set low rates for the old throws (around 48% D/R). Now high rates are nearly the full throw (100% D/R).

I was thinking about it, and remembered that most 3D pilots use 2 rates: normal rates, and 3D rates. That is, at normal flying speeds, they have the low, or flying, rates on. Once they go slow, they flip it over to 3D rates, to get more control at low speeds. Maybe I'll do that: Takeoff, flight and landings at low rates (which are basiclly the high rates of before), and when I try to do 3D stuff very slow, I'll simply flip over to "3D rates".

What do you think?

Thanks,
Erez
Jan 07, 2004, 05:04 PM
Erez,
You have the right idea. And CT gives some exceptionally good advice. Experiment with your increased throws in safe places, and be ready to come back to your low rates any time things feel 'out of wack'. Take your time, and there's lots you can learn with a dazzler, its a fun plane! (I used to work for the designer of the uproar....great guy and what a hoot of a plane it was/is!)

Sincerely,
AnnMarie Cross
President
Crosswinds Equine Rescue, Inc
http://www.crosswindseqresq.org/
Jan 08, 2004, 08:01 AM
Thread OP
Thanks for the afvice, guys.

Update:

I've made a few adjustments to my Dazzler (moved CG back and increased rudder throw), so I set two models on my radio:

One model has high rates set to the previous 100% throw (with the rods in the furthest hole), and low rates set to 80% the high rates.
On the second model I have done what I stated above. Like this, I'll do the firs flight of the day with the first model (all lowish rates), and see everything is OK. Then I can try the second model. Also, my Dad (Up&Away) wants to try the Dazzler (he flies the Unicorn flying wing), so he can now try it on before's low rates.

Now I'm just hoping the weather lightens up...

Erez
Jan 09, 2004, 07:20 AM
Registered User

Increasing throws


Rather than moving the push rods to the inner-most holes, you may want to consider using longer servo arms instead. If the push rods get too close to the hinge line, you'll lose all mechanical advantage and your servo may not have the power to move the surface at all.

I'd use longer arms, if it were me...
Jan 12, 2004, 03:37 AM
Registered User
What radio are you using Erez?

I always set up mechanically so that everything is at 90 degrees at centre sticks on 100% servo throws.

After that everything is done on the transmitter. For the first flight I always take off with the throw as per instructions with dual rates set at 70 % just in case.

Once I have found a comfortable set up I always write down those setting somewhere safe and also copy the model to a "spare model" on the transmitter and rename it "model 2". this means it is easy to go back to the original settings at any time.

All of the experimentation is done on "model 2" If you are looking to liven things up, have the comfortable settings set in the un-rated position. Then you can set the transmitter to always start/ take off in a condition you are familiar with.

Use the rated position for the trial stuff, increase ATV's by a max 5% at a time.

I always use -30% exponential. This softens the centre stick and leaves the extremes with wild throws that come in gradually.

Once you are happy with the plane re-name it "model 1" and reset the old one back to "spare" ready for the next plane or keep it to suit different flying conditions.

I have got one model (helicopter) in my transmitter 3 times. each is set up slightly differently, RG C (calm), RG N (Normal) RG W (windy). I don't have to fiddle with the trims just choose the conditions!

This can be a lot of trouble but you end with planes/helis that virtually fly themselves.


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