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Jan 26, 2013, 11:30 AM
E-Copter
Bricobrac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxSkywalker View Post
I think it is quite important to be able to balance a camera, as with Steadicam, the CG alone is not all, the dynamic CG can be very tricky. And you will never have a perfect balance once for all, as you will need to add or remove neutral density filters to get needed exposure and not get that strobe effect. Good glass is heavy, and a lens change often needed. When designing a gimbal, the gimbal itself should be as compact as possible and as close to the CG of the whole UAV (again out of Steadicam experience). Why does it seem as if the third axis (pan) is not so much considered ( panning with the copter is unexceptable for a camera movement). Rolling axis must not go through the optical axis, but in case you want to use it for an other application, it absolutely needs to, so ideally pan, tilt and roll should go through the focal point.. :-)
Hi,

this is why we work on a 3+ 2 axis solution for the bigger cameras.

If we use a " steady mount", a little like the Eciclop system ( but compensated only, no counter weight), then on this shaft we can mount a 2 or 3 axis independant gimbal.

This would allow to keep the general field pretty steady when performing pan movements, the pan been on the "steady" shaft, that avoids the gimbal itself to move around some circular and elliptic patterns.

Most panoramas are made with the uav hovering on a fixed position( gps / vario lock), but when you fly and make a travelling movement, if you add panning to it you see clearly the small ineptias of a standard hard mounted system to frames.
Perfect example is when following a subject on the side, the UAV is titled forward, the gimbal support obviously too, and panning the subject on the side creates a complete movement distortion.

Now let's say it, a 2 axis gimbal as it is is already really neato and works great, and fulfils the needs of 98% of people.

Regarding large cameras, the biggest challenge for brushless systems is the centripetal accelerations, you are giving a rotation to a 1kg+ item and even with perfect CG (dynamic and static), inertia is here and we do not know exactly, as Jussi said, the real limits of the motors yet for such big cameras.

It can work perfectly for keeping level as seen on some videos already, but you can also see the weakness of the direct control (very slow to come back to position) which will be something to watch very close. For this, there is a need of testing and experimenting, and also make some very sustained tests on a dynamic torque bench to see how long the motors can handle such way of working. Small motors are ok with small weights and inertia, but larger ones need a lot of attention

Best regards,

Fabien
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Jan 26, 2013, 05:19 PM
recep
recep's Avatar
Any estimation on release of the controller itself. Once people get the controllers more data will come about suitable motors gimbal designs etc.
Jan 26, 2013, 06:35 PM
Registered User
jbkappirossi's Avatar
how do you guys clear the VoF of the Gopro, because even with a small quad the Gopro muts atleast hang 20cm lower, underneath the quad to clear the props. i can imagine that with a small hexa, but with longer arms, that distance wil be even greater.

You can also put the Gopro underneath the front two props to clear the Props, but that wil create alot of unwanted downwash.

Or do you guys use different lenses on the GoPro's?
Jan 26, 2013, 07:01 PM
Ham Call Sign: KK4KGJ
Buzz Bomb's Avatar
A slight downward angle on the gimbal/camera usually does the trick.
Jan 26, 2013, 07:13 PM
Registered User
jbkappirossi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz Bomb View Post
A slight downward angle on the gimbal/camera usually does the trick.

yeah, but still. You also want some room to pitch forward.
Gopro fisheye lens sucks balls, that's how muts i know.
Jan 27, 2013, 01:07 AM
Registered User
One thing for sure is that the Chinese will be milling gimbals and designing controllers as we speak. 10 years ago, you would expect the quality to be poor but not now. They've had 50 odd years of teaching from America and the EU on how to manufacture items like this. They'll produce them at a world standard and at a rate that makes everyone else look like they're standing still.

I would prefer to be buying my BL gimbal and controller from a European designed and made source but if they don't get to the market place soon then the Chinese definitely will.
Jan 27, 2013, 02:54 AM
Registered User
Well, I have been told by a mate that tog it apart that the engines and controllers in the Zenmuse is all German.
So the only thing DJI have made is the design and milling of the zen.
Jan 27, 2013, 03:07 AM
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kinderkram's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelmarb View Post
I would prefer to be buying my BL gimbal and controller from a European designed and made source but if they don't get to the market place soon then the Chinese definitely will.
Maybe ... but "the Chinese" also know the market prices.
The only competitive stand alone servo gimbal for the GoPro comes at 300$

Atm only the German Open source version can be cloned easily.
btw: how long do you think it'll take them to develop an own version?
Jan 27, 2013, 03:29 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsun77 View Post
Well, I have been told by a mate that tog it apart that the engines and controllers in the Zenmuse is all German.
So the only thing DJI have made is the design and milling of the zen.
Maxon is Swiss, thatīs even more expensive as German, i also took a look
under the hood of my Zenmuse and the controllers look very specific and
not like anything standard they are offering.

A question to the coderīs out there: Isnīt this something Labview would be used
to simulate before building?
Jan 27, 2013, 03:40 AM
Registered User
never mind it is all in the start post.
Jan 27, 2013, 04:39 AM
OS Sponsor
kinderkram's Avatar
Here's a nice online calculation tool for the motor winding:
http://i.caendle.de/dev/test2/

Jan 27, 2013, 07:29 AM
E-Copter
Bricobrac's Avatar
Hi,

the electronics and motors are one things, but the code is another

We are joining our efforts with Viacopter / Flyduino and we think we can together bring some interesting performances improvements to the controller...

China has always been very reactive and very fast, and nobody can fight against this. BUt there are other fields to work on and simply, there is a market for each people budget and awaiting, so we do not stress too much about this

Best regards,
Fabien
Jan 27, 2013, 08:03 AM
13brv3's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
Here's a nice online calculation tool for the motor winding:
http://i.caendle.de/dev/test2/
That is nice! Thanks for the link.
Rusty
Jan 27, 2013, 08:20 AM
Plane and multirotor's - FPV
DrEvil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
Here's a nice online calculation tool for the motor winding:
http://i.caendle.de/dev/test2/

Looks like an orderery dLRK winding, most likely terminated in star config.

Anybody tested an alredy winded motor's kv ?
Jan 27, 2013, 08:28 AM
Registered User
just wanted to keep tabs on this as I'm very interested.


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