Guillows 18" span Sopwith Camel - Page 8 - RC Groups
Shop our Airplanes Products Drone Products Sales
Thread Tools
Jan 30, 2013, 01:49 PM
Balsa Lover
gupi's Avatar
It seems like Easybuiltmodels stocks Esaki tissue. I had very good results with checkered Esaki and it's very lightweight. Maybe you should check the white variant (my local hobby shop doesn't stock white Esaki, so i can't tell). Just stay away from the silver colored - it doesn't shrink at all. The Guillow's tissue that comes with their kits shrinks nicely, too.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Jan 30, 2013, 01:54 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
Thanks gupi.
I do have esaki tissue but I would think it will get very translucent once doped and the print will pretty much disappear. I did buy a couple of sheets of the silver even knowing it doesn't shrink. I might use it for something someday....
It's looking more like I'm going to end up using Guillows tissue.
Jan 31, 2013, 02:44 AM
Registered User
Spitfire1954's Avatar
Hi Glenn – Great picture! Did the model fly well? I used the Easybuilt tissue on my first Hampden build – I used the glue stick method, but applied the tissue damp, it dried over night and came out taught, unfortunately I used Butyrate dope (thinned 50/50) which over time has completely warped the flying surfaces – I now used nitrate dope only, but it is not easy to find these days – I think we should go back to black and white!
Jan 31, 2013, 04:53 AM
Registered User
Such good taste for one so young. At that time I was deep into wet and smelly control line. Probably it would have been the Veron Nipper or Mercury Wasp in 1965. I'd have been 13 at the time. Must make us of a similar age. I, however, still had to learn that noisy and fast isn't necessarily good.

Jan 31, 2013, 05:06 AM
Slip the surly bonds...
Sopwith Mike's Avatar
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE
water resistant.

One method I saw, and tried, for sealing printed tissue (on a foam model) was to use the spray fixative artists use for pastel drawings. Although the model was a disaster, the technique seems to work well. 3 or 4 light coats gave it a nice doped type sheen.

Hi Pete,

The spray fixative does work well on pastel shading, so it's worth a try on printed tissue.

Jan 31, 2013, 11:20 AM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
Did it fly well?
I don't really remember but I do recall it was painted with Fokker Red Aerogloss dope and must have weighed a ton!
I built another test frame last night to test the easybuilt tissue.

When I was 13 I was doing the same, oily and noisy control line, stunt and combat.
Over here it was Ringmasters and Fox 35's for stunt and Lil Satan's and Cox 049''s for 1/2A combat!
My prize possession was the Aeromodeller subscription I got every year for my birthday! I loved that magazine and built a lot of models from the free plans. I did hate that awful pink paper they printed them on!
Jan 31, 2013, 12:08 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
Last night I decided to just coat the slightly loose tissue on the test piece just to see what happens.

I grabbed a bottle of Aerogloss and when I opened it, found the lid was loose! The stuff was thick as honey. I thinned it to about what 50/50 would be and coated the bottom side of the piece.
Once that dried, I sprayed the top side with the automotive lacquer. One thing I did notice about the tissue is it doesn't seem to absorb the coating, it just sits on the surface. Even the thinned dope didn't penetrate much.
After drying for 15 minutes or so, the tissue was still limp, no evidence of tautening at all.

Over the course of the evening, the bottom got 3 coats of dope. It didn't have much of a gloss to it at all.
The top side received 2 coats of auto lacquer and has a high gloss.
Tissue is STILL limp... The good news is the printed graphics still look good.
I got disgusted with the whole affair and just left it sitting out in the shop while I ponder what to do next.

A couple of hours later I went out to the shop for something else and just for grins I checked the test piece.
Much to my surprise, the tissue had tightened up some! On both sides!!! Still not what I would call tight enough, but acceptable.

I brought it in the house to see if it goes limp like before. On a previous test the tissue was tight when I brought it in the house and went limp after 12 or so hours. When I went to bed it was still tight, but I didn't it check this morning before I left for work.

These are interesting results and I think further testing is needed. I was surprised to find the auto lacquer and the Aerogloss seem to have the same shrink. The lacquer as it comes out of the spray can is too thick to penetrate the tissue and it needs to be thinned a lot more. It looks like it takes at least an hour after drying to the touch for it to shrink.

I think if the tissue was a bit tighter before the coating was applied, the auto lacquer might just work.
A new test frame was built to try the easybuilt tissue next.
Jan 31, 2013, 01:49 PM
The "pro" in procrastination
Steve85's Avatar
Hey Glenn,

I'm just reading about your trials and tribulations with printed tissue. I had similar issues with a Rumpler I built here:

I found the best way to proceed was to pre-shrink the tissue in a frame, print it, apply to the model using glue stick, and then do final tightening by wiping a cotton ball moistened in rubbing alcohol to the applied tissue. A couple of lightly misted coats of Krylon clear finished it off. The thing with rubbing alcohol is that there's usually 25-40% water in it, so I found that if I sprayed it on the printed tissue, the water had time to make the ink run. For some reason, the same alcohol wiped on sparingly with a cotton ball didn't.

I never tired it, but I'm willing to bet that a coat or two of thinned nitrate dope brushed on wouldn't make the ink run and would do the final tightening and protective coat just as well.

Jan 31, 2013, 03:46 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
I did try lightly wetting with a cotton ball and alcohol and the ink bled. I could snag some 90% IPA from work and try that, but honestly I've had just about enough of this. I'm getting close though and I think the problem might be more the tissue itself.
Jan 31, 2013, 09:35 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
After resting for 24 hrs in the house the tissue is still as tight as it was last night. This is good news. The gift tissue is a bit weak, but seems usable. Maybe it will stiffen up some after a couple of more coats of clear.
Feb 01, 2013, 08:43 AM
Registered User
PatricMichigan's Avatar
Very good point- I've not tried the Deluxe stuff over printed tissue. Acutally, never pre-printed any tissue so this is quite interested.
Any idea how much weight has been added with the coats of clear?
Feb 01, 2013, 11:35 AM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
I didn't weigh the piece before and after. I use two coats of dope on all my tissue covered models as a sealer/base for the color coat. Then decals are applied and a shot of clear WBPU over that. Might not be the lightest solution, but it is durable and can withstand our wide humidity variations and trips into the wet grass.
Feb 08, 2013, 10:40 AM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
Looks like I’m going to give up on the printed tissue covering on the Camel for a number of reasons.

Biggest reason is once doped, the tissue gets too translucent and really needs a white base. On a model this small it would add too much weight to cover first in white solite then tissue onto that.

Second reason, the gift wrap tissue I printed on is pretty much useless for a model this size. It would work fine on a peanut scale model because it doesn’t shrink much and is very thin. I can’t get the crap to shrink the way I want it too.

Third is the neither the lacquer dope substitutes nor good old Aerogloss will shrink the crappy tissue. It’s like it shrinks some and looks tight, then after a couple of days it goes limp. This is the problem with my Stuka and it annoys the heck out of me.

A while back a guy at the field gave me a box of tissue. Last night I pulled out a sheet and covered the test frame. Water shrunk and it drew up nice and tight. Took it out to the shop and gave it a coat of thinned Rustoleum Automotive lacquer. It was late and I went to bed before the lacquer dried.
The thinner I used is a retarding thinner and it takes a while for the lacquer to dry. We’ll see the results tonight. Maybe I’ll try regular lacquer thinner to speed the drying time. Or just use Aerogloss and get it over with…

One last reason to throw in the towel, I’ve spent WAY too much time on this. Building season is coming to an end and all I’ve done is screw with this model. I have other stuff to do and want to get this one off my bench!

Looks like it will be easybuilt tissue, dope and MM acryl color with ink jet printed decals.
Feb 08, 2013, 11:31 AM
In Unusual Attitude Recovery
MPP's Avatar
Sorry Glenn, wasn't with out a valiant effort. I think your finishing skills are more than par with the printed stuff. Maybe a depron bird in the future, those guys seem to have a good medium for the printed tissue.

Anyway look forward to your Camel.


Feb 08, 2013, 12:03 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
Thanks man.
Yeah, tissue over thin depron seems to be the way to go.

I'm thinking using better tissue might work but honestly, I'm over it at this stage. I have stripped and recovered one test frame 5 times now then built a second frame and it's been covered three times.... Add to this the effort of trying to find a dope substitute that goes back to my FW 190 build.
I have had enough experimenting for a while

I haven't given up on this completely though, just it's time to move on with this model and get it finished.
Now that I know what doesn't work....
I have spent two weeks trying and I could have finished the model long ago..


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold 2 Guillows Kits. B-25 / Sopwith Camel New Price. Cphipps0826 Aircraft - Electric - Micro & Indoor Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Sep 06, 2012 11:34 PM
Sold Guillows Sopwith Camel FlyWW1 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Jun 11, 2012 07:59 AM
Discussion Free plan: Sopwith Camel - 21 in span, 1934 plans by Peerless planeman Free Flight 0 Jun 24, 2010 09:55 PM
Discussion Atom - my 8" span Sopwith Camel Slider2732 Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 1 Dec 07, 2009 06:44 PM
1ST Flight Guillows Sopwith Camel Warren Jones Scale Kit/Scratch Built 15 Dec 29, 2002 09:12 PM