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Nov 20, 2012, 09:06 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Discussion

Mini Vapor Equipment Specs


For those interested in the Mini Vapor equipment, here it is. The MV brick has a smaller footprint, uses smaller diameter 3mm motors, and weighs 2.85g with a 3-inch battery lead and plug. The original Vapor brick (with its stock lead and plug) weighs 3.3g, and uses 4mm motors.

I figured the only way to reduce the weight was to go to a smaller size motor in the brick. I had hoped for a bit more of a weight reduction, but guess about half a gram isn't bad.

The Propulsion system motor is as I suspected a 6x10mm rather than the 6x15mm that the regular Vapor uses. The gear ratio is the same as the regular Vapor, but the molding where the gearbox attaches to the fuselage is a bit different. So, my guess that they went with the shorter motor that the Ares Nano Stick uses is correct. Whether the wind on the motor is the same I don't know yet.

{edit}
Added first pass table on equipment weights. As can be seen, the Mini Vapor is 39% lighter than the original Vapor. The bulk of the weight reduction comes from the smaller battery as well as the smaller airframe. The next largest source of weight reduction came from a shorter 6mm motor and a smaller and lighter prop. Note the lack of a prop spinner on the MV to save weight. The smallest contribution to the overall reduction in weight came from the new Mini Vapor brick.

I will add more info to this table as I get it, such as thrust and amp draw from the new motor and prop combo.

Gordon
Last edited by Gordon Johnson; Nov 23, 2012 at 05:06 PM.
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Nov 20, 2012, 09:52 PM
Registered User
Gordon,

You're like Dick Tracy on the case!! Good detective work.

I am torn between buying one or finishing my faux sorta-Vapor made from recycled micro planes with some homemade Vapor-like parts.
Nov 20, 2012, 10:01 PM
TheyreComingToTakeMeAway!
derk's Avatar
3mm motors!! awesome! looks like the servo mechanics could possibly be installed into a stand alone unit like the aileron servo on the 4ch planes, that would make for an even lighter (lower torque) servo
i wonder how much force these smaller servos can produce?

*edit* i dont see a motor connector on the smaller brick, is it on the other side of the board?
Nov 20, 2012, 11:13 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
The servo feedback pot is fused onto the PC board on these linear servo bricks from memory. The mechanics are just that - gears, threaded rod, motor and housing. Unfortunately you can't remove them easily to use separately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derk View Post
3mm motors!! awesome! looks like the servo mechanics could possibly be installed into a stand alone unit like the aileron servo on the 4ch planes, that would make for an even lighter (lower torque) servo
i wonder how much force these smaller servos can produce?

*edit* i dont see a motor connector on the smaller brick, is it on the other side of the board?
Nov 20, 2012, 11:49 PM
TheyreComingToTakeMeAway!
derk's Avatar
not exactly what i meant, perhaps not worded well enough. i mean i wonder if we can lighten the existing 1.5 gram linear servos by changing out the 4mm motor drives for the 3mm motor ones. they look to be about the same travel (would need to verify first) so in theory, it could work, but the weight drop might not be worth all the effort. that would all depend on how much the new gear threaded rod and motor weigh.
Nov 20, 2012, 11:59 PM
Pilot, Co-pilot, Navagator
nemoskull's Avatar
any chance of a photo of the backside?
Nov 21, 2012, 12:00 AM
Micro Flyer, Big Poster
Pete P's Avatar
@derk - I attempted to lighten a normal Ember RX using super-short 4mm motors... Saved .15g each, not enough to matter to me very few of my models need much torque, the motors worked but I've since swapped them out after clipping the RX on a pole and kicking out the back of one of those poor tiny motors.
Nov 21, 2012, 05:51 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by derk View Post
not exactly what i meant, perhaps not worded well enough. i mean i wonder if we can lighten the existing 1.5 gram linear servos by changing out the 4mm motor drives for the 3mm motor ones. they look to be about the same travel (would need to verify first) so in theory, it could work, but the weight drop might not be worth all the effort. that would all depend on how much the new gear threaded rod and motor weigh.
The new linear servo mechanism is attached with three screws instead of the old four. So, at least one of the screws won't match up with a hole on the external servo board. In addition, I don't think the motor is included with a replacement servo mechanics. So, where to get the 3mm motor?

I'll get a picture of the back.

I see no solder pads for an external servo, BTW. I really wish they had gone that route. Horizon, are you listening?

Gordon
Last edited by Gordon Johnson; Nov 21, 2012 at 05:59 AM.
Nov 21, 2012, 05:51 AM
Registered User
I R Irv's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by derk View Post
not exactly what i meant, perhaps not worded well enough. i mean i wonder if we can lighten the existing 1.5 gram linear servos by changing out the 4mm motor drives for the 3mm motor ones. they look to be about the same travel (would need to verify first) so in theory, it could work, but the weight drop might not be worth all the effort. that would all depend on how much the new gear threaded rod and motor weigh.
If you look close there mounted with 3 screw and the one at the motor is at a different location.
TODD
Nov 22, 2012, 08:54 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemoskull View Post
any chance of a photo of the backside?
Done. I've added it to the first post in this thread.
Nov 22, 2012, 02:34 PM
TheyreComingToTakeMeAway!
derk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson View Post
Done. I've added it to the first post in this thread.
thanks for that Gordon, so it looks like the motor wires get soldered between the servos on the bottom, right by the capacitor? i would add a connector there myself if thats the case, i really dont like repeated soldering and un-soldering like that.
Nov 22, 2012, 06:24 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
The newer 2S bricks use topside servo wire soldering, too.

Wrap around the edge wiring is one of the first things i would have tried to eliminate on a clean sheet design.

I know this has lead to many warranty returns.

Those motors are tiny. The AS3X servo motors would be MONSTROUS in comparison.

Probably don't want to put this in anything over 22-25g.
Nov 22, 2012, 06:33 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
If Short motors, saved .15g each, I'd go that route and get a 3.0g 5 Channel Green Dot with a plug in motor block.

A plug in motor and 2 channels is a lot to give up for .15g of weight savings.

A short 4mm has to have as much power as a 3mm. (which is probably just as short)
Nov 22, 2012, 06:40 PM
Registered User
I R Irv's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
The newer 2S bricks use topside servo wire soldering, too.

Wrap around the edge wiring is one of the first things i would have tried to eliminate on a clean sheet design.

I know this has lead to many warranty returns.

Those motors are tiny. The AS3X servo motors would be MONSTROUS in comparison.

Probably don't want to put this in anything over 22-25g.
Top side servo wires is great but motor wires soldered to bottom of brick???(I thought only Air-hogs did that) That must be one heck of a motor that never burns up, and if it does do they send you a new motor with a brick soldered to it.
TODD
Nov 22, 2012, 06:43 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I R Irv View Post
Top side servo wires is great but motor wires soldered to bottom of brick???(I thought only Air-hogs did that) That must be one heck of a motor that never burns up, and if it does do they send you a new motor with a brick soldered to it.
TODD
That is the way the Kyosho miniums still are. The replacement motors come with 2 pieces of heat shrink.

The typical Champ buyer's head would explode, if they saw that.


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