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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
...

So, to be clear, I do think spare parts availability is a very important thing to consider when buying an ARF...especially a 3D ARF that is likely to be involved in more incidents due to the nature of risks in 3D flight.
Yes, I agree... I was being facetious.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by UCDme3D View Post
Back in 2003 when I started in this hobby, I thought my U can Do 3d was the bomb... Now I laugh that I ever thought that! People like you have brought this hobby such a long way... Cheers!
But in 2003 it was the bomb. Then Stevens Aero and precision laser cutting happened, and the industry leveraged that to figure out how to build a plane with little/no wing rock, then we figured out to minimize coupling, etc, etc, etc... That stuff didn't just magically happen, though. It took literally hundreds and hundreds of prototypes throughout the "boutique" part of the industry (at the time, Seba, EF, 3DHS, SA, PA, Mountain models) with different wing locations, wing thickness, varying locations of max thickness, weight reductions to keep the cube loading as low as possible, etc. That said, none of this could have happened without brushless and Lipo technology continuing to innovate...

Personally, I couldn't have imagined where all of this has gone. I clearly remember a time before RCG even had a 3D forum, because there simply weren't ANY electric 3D airplanes. It took a large effort by a modeler called "Dreamer" (I think) to get the 3D forum started.

I guess my point in all of this is that we didn't copy one another. We built on what we learned, leveraged an idea, but we didn't copy anything. Copies add nothing to either development or innovation. I refuse to reward that. FWIW.

Scott
Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sukhoi26mx View Post
But in 2003 it was the bomb. Then Stevens Aero and precision laser cutting happened, and the industry leveraged that to figure out how to build a plane with little/no wing rock, then we figured out to minimize coupling, etc, etc, etc... That stuff didn't just magically happen, though. It took literally hundreds and hundreds of prototypes throughout the "boutique" part of the industry (at the time, Seba, EF, 3DHS, SA, PA, Mountain models) with different wing locations, wing thickness, varying locations of max thickness, weight reductions to keep the cube loading as low as possible, etc. That said, none of this could have happened without brushless and Lipo technology continuing to innovate...

Personally, I couldn't have imagined where all of this has gone. I clearly remember a time before RCG even had a 3D forum, because there simply weren't ANY electric 3D airplanes. It took a large effort by a modeler called "Dreamer" (I think) to get the 3D forum started.

I guess my point in all of this is that we didn't copy one another. We built on what we learned, leveraged an idea, but we didn't copy anything. Copies add nothing to either development or innovation. I refuse to reward that. FWIW.

Scott

It was awesome in 2003! For a beginner I was hovering and knife edging all day with that floaty thing! I worked at the hobby shop and remember motocalc'ing different numbers of nicmh packs and brushed motors with gearboxes. Shooting for over 1:1 thrust, forget about. 2:1! When lipos and brushless
Motors came out, it was a new ball game. But initially lipos were a max of 10c so it was still tough together a good thrust to weight!
Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kingconsulting View Post
How much does it cost for 3DHS to design these models? Research and development? Flying to China to meet with manufactures? Marketing?

They just took their laser cut original files and got it built somewhere else. Who knows maybe from the same company.

How about you just give us all 20% of your paycheck? Probably wouldn't be fair would it? China has copied things like this forever.

Robert King
dude, for the development and creative efforts of an airframe, customers of these products expect people to get exactly $0 for their efforts...


Quote:
Originally Posted by FireyFate
Well, as the old saying goes: "Put a thousand monkeys working at a thousand typewriters, and they will eventually give up and clone a 3DHS product."
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by UCDme3D View Post
But initially lipos were a max of 10c so it was still tough together a good thrust to weight!
Still remember my first set of Kokam 3200's (3C max!) that were capable of a full 10 amps!! Woohoo! Totally different world.. we could actually fly a brushed Zagi for 15-20 minutes!

Scott
Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:09 PM
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To be perfectly honest, a year ago I wouldn't have cared much that HK copied the airframe, put their own logo exactly where the 3DHS logo is and even calls it 3DHK in an obvious attempt to provoke the 3DHS team. And I hold no grudge against anyone buying this plane hoping to get an acceptable product while saving a few bucks.

But I will say this:

While being involved with a certain 3D-oriented site, I've gotten to know the 3DHS family a little better and started to understand what they're doing for the hobby. It's simply a great group of people who don't hesitate to answer questions and help their fellow pilots, even those who don't fly 3DHS planes. I've also started to understand the enormous amount of development, research, testing, experimenting, scrapping of ideas, launching of new ideas that goes on behind the scenes. Like someone said earlier, if you calculated the hourly wages on all that work, it would come out to a very low number. Sure, these are people who do what they love, but it's still a tremendous gift to our community as RC pilots.

So what I'm trying to say here is that if you want to buy this plane, I'm not going to try to stop you. But stop and think for a second how it impacts the very people who make this hobby what it is!

I personally own very few 3DHS planes (two, to be exact), but I have a feeling that fleet will grow, based on what I've learned about the people behind the products and how they develop them.

And now I will step down from my soap box and get some work done. Thank you for your time!
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:37 PM
long leng is offline
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would it be all right then karma wise if you send a thx-a-lot-email to 3dhs after the purchase at hk ?
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:50 PM
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I think that's between you and your karma-providing diety.
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:56 PM
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I wonder if 3DHS have employed a hacker to get their own back?

Message displayed on HK web site home page as of 5 minutes ago:
Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:44 PM
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Hey all,

I dont usually get into these types of discussions but I would like to know if and when someone receives this model if they could send some pics of it and if by chance they have a 3DHS Slick laying around to compare it to that would be great. If Hobbyking keeps on deciding to STEAL designs that are out there I have a feeling that the hobby will end up losing designs. Why should I put my hard work into designing a model when I know for a fact that it will just be ripped off and sold by some other company. I really hope that this plane is just close to the 3DHS Slick but I have a feeling that is almost identical in every way.

Andrew
Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:48 PM
long leng is offline
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why not copyrighting the design?
Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by long leng View Post
why not copyrighting the design?
Do you live under a rock or what? Trying to enforce copyright on a low volume product against a Chinese company would be an utter waste of resources. It would go nowhere.

If the RIAA, Holywood, and Microsoft can't figure out a way to enforce their copyrights in China you seriously think a specialty RC ARF company is going to be successful at it?
Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Same reason as a chineese patent. Actually here is something interesting. The elon musk dragon rocket doesn't have any patents on it because he knows the Chinese will just copy the patents without a care in the world.
Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:23 PM
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I find it almost laughable the vitreol spouted over something that in the grand scheme of things isn't really that important...its comical the way some people behave when a so called 3DHS copy cat plane hits the HK shelves....

Please get over it...

Our lives are a wash with counterfeit...copied things.. and it's not all China's fault...

from Levi's to Cigarettes to Cars to RC planes...things will be copied and if I find I need my Brakes done...I am pretty sure my local garage gets a copied brake pad which is over half the price of an Alfa Romeo original...

'Smart' people know this

3DHS have their own site and their own distribution network now 'bongo'

I have checked and checked and HK are not on their site listed - which means....

If I want a genuine 3DHS slick I will need to go to them and place an order....or anyone else that offers 3DHS planes....if I want something that is possibly not of the same quality or offers the same quality of flying...and prepared to pay less than it should be every ones prerogative - it may even fly better who knows.. but seldom in this world does anything that has been copied and sells for less is as good as the original....


These aren't the droids you are looking for...

Move along....Move along...
Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Bat View Post
I find it almost laughable the vitreol spouted over something that in the grand scheme of things isn't really that important...its comical the way some people behave when a so called 3DHS copy cat plane hits the HK shelves....

Please get over it...

Our lives are a wash with counterfeit...copied things.. and it's not all China's fault...

from Levi's to Cigarettes to Cars to RC planes...things will be copied and if I find I need my Brakes done...I am pretty sure my local garage gets a copied brake pad which is over half the price of an Alfa Romeo original...

'Smart' people know this

3DHS have their own site and their own distribution network now 'bongo'

I have checked and checked and HK are not on their site listed - which means....

If I want a genuine 3DHS slick I will need to go to them and place an order....or anyone else that offers 3DHS planes....if I want something that is possibly not of the same quality or offers the same quality of flying...and prepared to pay less than it should be every ones prerogative - it may even fly better who knows.. but seldom in this world does anything that has been copied and sells for less is as good as the original....


These aren't the droids you are looking for...

Move along....Move along...
I know you're in another country, but "isn't that important"??? It doesn't open your eyes that two of the top designers have voiced their concerns over this?
Have you seen the progress the 3d designers have made in the past 10 years- if that isn't that important, then go back to brushed motors and nicads- you sound like you'd be satisfied.


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