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Apr 17, 2013, 01:56 AM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Thread OP

Test results for the 3rd series


I would like to thank everybody who contributed the input that resulted in the testing methodology utilized.

A. The test profiles graphed were 30 sec. WOT, 10 sec. 2 clicks below half throttle, 20 sec. at half throttle finishing with 30 seconds WOT

B. All batteries were equally stored above 70 deg.

C. The tests represent a very small sample of any mfgs wares so the results may vary within the brand. However they do give us an accurate idea of a mfgs internal QC: If I bought two packs and one is crap that tells us a lot about the mfg's internal QC.

D. The complete data file set, graph reader, performance summary and product review are available for free download at http://www.motioncontrolsys.com
The link is "Lipo Data & Reader" located in the top right corner under the the company address. Save to disk, unzip and install. Guaranteed virus free. This will enable you to recreate all of the output below on your own computer.

Stay tuned, the new Thunder Power G8's will arrive tomorrow and so we'll soon be able to see some data to indicate if they're over hyped or the real thing.


GRAPHS, PRODUCT REVIEW, PRICING AND PERFORMANCE SUMMARY,
Last edited by MCSGUY; Apr 17, 2013 at 02:41 AM.
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Apr 17, 2013, 02:04 AM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Thread OP

Download data file set, graph reader and reviews


Log into http://www.motioncontrolsys.com/ and click on the link shown below. Save to disk, unzip and double click Setup.exe
Apr 17, 2013, 02:23 AM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Thread OP

Product and pricing review


PRODUCT REVIEW BY MCSGUY- Prices shown are sellers list as of 4/16/13.
the comments below are my opinions only and are based on a very small test sample of each brand so results may vary within a brand but the QC reveal doesn't lie.


DINOGY 5100mah 65C - $144.00 - www.dinogylipos.com

Dinogy exploded out of the chute with a devastating 19.4lbs of thrust which was half a pound more then Thunder Powers 7700mah 65C's could manage. However they gave a some of it back with a 3lb sag at the 10 second mark of the 1st segment. Recovering very quickly Dinogy still garnered a very respectable 17.8lbs finish on the 1st segment. Maintaining over 17lbs of thrust through out the run I would say that Dinogy is a serious contender. Also one of the better packs for cell matching. The cell voltage profile was exceptionally tight across the board. Dinogy is a definite buy in my opinion.


GENSACE 5500mah 25C - $111.86 - www.hobbypartz.com

What can you say bad about a 25C pack the kicked Thunderpowers 65C $250 a$$ in every catagory at less then half the cost? Undoubtedly the ultimate sleeper. Starting out at an excellent 18.4lbs of thrust, it settled down to a stable 17.5lb average on the 1st segment and finished the second not much below that. A stable, consistant performer. Excellent cell matching, almost as good as the Dinogy. These are the best buy, if you are ever able to catch them in stock buy all you can afford before the magic runs out of the bottle.


HYPERION 6500mah 35C - $228.95 - www.lipomall.com (out of stock) $285.95 - www.scaleflying.com (in stock)

Just what you would expect from Hyperion. A solid 18.8lb start holding an excellent average of 18lbs through out the 1st segment. It peaked at 18.3 on the second segment with a solid 17.8lb average and an average 17.4lb finish. Remarkable cell matching on one of the packs, the other being "only" exceptional. Compare these to the Thunder Powers 6600mah "65C"'s at 75% of the cost. If you want a premium pack these are your choice. The quality control appears exceptional and you actually get what you pay for- what a concept.


TURNIGY ZIPPY 5000mah 40C - $59.11 - www.hobbyking.com

Disqualified during the earlier high amperage "Constant Resistant" portion of the testing series. Even though the amps never exceeded it's rated capacity the qualifier pack puffed like a marsh mellow.


Genesis 5000mah 55C - $127.00 - www.bananahobby.com

Another disqualified loser during the CR test phase, literally puffed like a balloon at 2/3rds of it's C rating. Thinking it might be a fluke I purchased a couple 5500/55C's to give them another shot but one of the packs arrived with a dead cell that wouldn't hold a charge. Maybe just bad luck but that level of quality control eliminates them from my Christmas list.


Nano A-SPEC 5000mah 65C - $129.99 - www.hobbyking.com

Surprising performance, a powerful 18.7lbs high on segment one thrust, it held an average of 18lbs with a second segment finish averaging 17.5lbs with a 17.9lb high. These packs are very solid performers and also show excellent quality control with precise cell matching. Turnigy may have turned a corner with the A-Specs. Priced on the low end, if it turns out the packs are capable of this kind of performance long term they will become recognized as one of the premier brands. An excellent buy. Even though I typically avoid all things Turnigy when it comes to my jets I'm planning on adding a few more of these to my cooler. Highly recommended, well worth the price.


REVOLECTRIX 5000mah 60C - $124.90 + import duty fees - www.store.revolectrix.com

Stable output across both segments. High mark on segment one of 17.9lbs with a 17.7lb average and 17.7lbs on segment two with a 17.5lb average. Almost a straight line of power output across both segments. One of the packs suffers from a weak cell and a marginal cell profile while the other pack displays arguably the best cell matching of the bunch. Too bad the quality control (or resilency) of Pack "A" wasn't up to par. Regardles, the staying power was exceptional. They are still one of my favorites but I have to confess that I've lost some of my initial respect for them. Regardless, still a good buy in my opinion.


THUNDER POWER 5000mah 65C - $249.99 - www.aero-model.com

Pretty good performance for $100 packs. Abysmal if you paid over twice that amount like I did. A 17.7lb start dropped rapidly to 16.6lbs, I can't believe these packs are in the bottom in every catagory on the performance summary. The second segment only averaged 16.7lbs. Even the pack that looked up to par shows sloppy cell matching and the cell profile in the other was what I would expect from Turnigy. Voltage persistance fell clear off the chart! Can you spell "Rip Off"? I'm sure there's a good reason TP now requires a 50% fee to replace even a pristine looking brand new pack with a bad cell (I speak from bitter experience). They would probably go broke if they still gave the warranty support they built the brand name on. I do not recommend these packs.

If you haven't noticed I have a bad attitude towards TP, but for good reason. I loaded up on their packs trusting in their reputation and I have been dissappointed at every turn by every pack size, both on the bench and in the air. The testing shows that when TP labeled these packs as 65C- by any reasonable metric - they lied. Every last one of the (4) 5000mah packs I strapped on melted the 4mm cross link connectors clean off the packs at around 33C! I would avoid these packs at half the price especially since TP does not appear to be standing behind their brand the way they used to.

The new Thunder Power G8 packs started arriving at dealers last week. I have just ordered (2) with overnight shipping and will publish the results of their testing as soon as I break them in. Hopefully they will show some improvement but unless something significant has changed in TP's QC and assembly process I don't expect much.


THUNDER POWER 6600mah 65C- $349.99 - www.aero-model.com

More disappointment from Thunder Power. At 18.1lbs of starting thrust and a 30 second drop to 17.3lbs. For $340 6600/65C packs, these well and truly suck. Compare these to the results on Hyperions 35C's to see what I mean. Both TP packs show poor cell quality, the matching is poor at best and even 6600mah's couldn't keep the voltage persistance from dragging on the floor. The finish voltage on pack "B" was only 21.07 volts with the lowest cell at a miserable 3.46 volts. The real shame is I bought six of these packs thinking they wouldn't let me down. All I got to say is Thunder Power buyers beware.


THUNDER POWER 7700 65C - $434.99 - www.aero-model.com

Thunder Power's top of the line packs will set you back over $400. They produced 18.9lbs of thrust coming out, averaged a powerful 18.6lb average over the first segment and an 18lb average over the second segment and they run cool as ice. These are the packs I'll be flying in the Velox, the jet I'm using for the testing. Voltage persistance was good but I did expect better on the QC side of cell matching. The cell voltage spread was pretty sloppy, not on par with Hyperion, Donogy or GensAce 25C. In keeping with the Thunder Power QC slide a resistance connection on the power lead on one of the packs got so hot is blistered through the shrink tube and end cover. All I can say is since I own four of the packs I'll use em but if I had it to do over again I'd put a couple of 4000mah Hyperion's in series and really have something. I would classify the TP 7700's as over priced.


GENSACE 5300mah 60C - $109.95 - www.hobbypartz.com

Pretty good performance, came out at 17.8lbs of thrust and averaged 17.5lbs across both segments. Pretty impressive straight line power output however they ran hot with 48 degree temp rise to 123.4 degrees F in 90 seconds even with a 30 second cool down period in the middle. Also voltage persistance was dragging on the bottom with a low of 3.387 on one of the cells on Pack "A". Cell matching could have been better. Considering the 25C version killed this pack in every catagory it's hard to justify these being labeled at 60C. I was not impressed.


HAIYIN 5000mah 40C - $92.00 - www.haiyinstore.com

One Word describes the Haiyin performance: embarrassing. After the first 5 seconds the output sagged to only 14lbs of thrust and the recovery was slow and seemingly painful. There's no reason to talk about anything further because the temperature rose to 147 degrees. The 70 degree temp rise was the highest I've run across. The remarkable thing is there is no puff, the packs are tight. So probably just a victim of a bad pack getting out the door because the cell voltage profile on pack "B" looked as good as pack "A" looked bad. But as far as I, the customer, is concerned I have experienced a 50% failure rate. Obviously nobody at Haiyin is checking what they are shipping out the door. Guess they figure if Thunder Power can get away with it why can't they. (I know, that was uncalled for but I did pay alot of money for the right to sound petty )
Personally, I would avoid these packs.


GLACIER 5300mah 35C - $109.95 - www.buddyrc.com

Wow! I wasn't expecting what came out of the Glacier's. You could almost put a ruler across the WOT segments' thrust curves. They stack up well with 18.4lbs of thrust out the chute with a better then most 17.8lb average across segment one. A 17.5lb average over segment two reflects some of the best cell matching of the test group. Like the GensAce 25C, the Glaciers holds it's own against packs sporting 60 or 65C labels. Voltage persistance with pretty good bottoming out at 21.2 for both packs. The lowest cell in both packs were exactly the same to the second decimal place: 3.529 on pack "A" and 3.520 on pack "B" (did I mention the cell matching was excellent?). I am impressed. If these babies end up holding their oats for a couple hundred cycles we have a new quality leader in the industry. I don't mean to belabor the point but compare Glacier's absolutely picture perfect output graphs against the rest to see what I mean. A decent buy at twice the price a super buy at $110


Turnigy Nano-tech 5000mah 65C - $116.70 - www.hobbyking.com

They performed better then I expected putting out a fairly straight output line starting with 18.2lbs of thrust and averaging a very respectable 17.8lb over segment one. Segment two had a high of 17.5lbs with an average of 17.3lbs. One of the packs showed fairly decent cell matching but the other was not so good. This caused pack "B"'s voltage to drag along the floor at 21v which will just get you by. With only a $13 difference
the A-Spec should make this pack obsolete.
Last edited by MCSGUY; Apr 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM.
Apr 17, 2013, 02:25 AM
big ignore list/drama is dumb
brushless55's Avatar
Amazing bro!
thank you so much for your hard work!!

I am glad I bought my Gens 25C packs two weeks ago, I got to try them out in one of my boats this past weekend and dang!
they have amazing power in my big MONO
Apr 17, 2013, 05:03 AM
Registered User
Fantastic data! Thanks again.
Apr 17, 2013, 09:23 AM
big ignore list/drama is dumb
brushless55's Avatar
So going with the original reason of this test, it looks like the Gens 25C are the clear winner when comparing C rating vs true C ratings..
wish the industry had a standard for measuring C rating before they are put on a pack for sale..
so the buyer is not dupped
Apr 17, 2013, 10:32 AM
Сделайте Америку Великой Снова
7oneWo1f's Avatar
Great report. Big thumbs up and thanks.

Could you do something on:

1. WHr/$1.00
2. Overall Whr/gram (assuming same connectors used)

Thanks
Apr 17, 2013, 10:32 AM
Registered User
Thanks for all you work.
Apr 17, 2013, 12:22 PM
Shut up and fly
papabatman's Avatar
nice stuff can you test 3 or 4s batterys too
Apr 17, 2013, 12:47 PM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by papabatman
nice stuff can you test 3 or 4s batterys too
I don't use 3 or 4s batteries on my larger jets so I have no need but the 6S batteries use the same cells as a manufacturers 3 or 4S batteries so you can expect similar quality and comparative results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC
Great report. Big thumbs up and thanks.

Could you do something on:

1. WHr/$1.00
2. Overall Whr/gram (assuming same connectors used)

Thanks
Your welcome!
What your asking about is way out of my zone. I just wanted to know if we're getting hosed on the C rating hype. The numbers show it's more an issue of QC. If the mfg's don't bother to check what they're sending out the door you can pay good money for crap and never do the testing to know you're not getting your moneys worth. I got suspicious when my TP's performed like Turnigys so I started doing this. I'm only going to buy batteries with cell voltage output curves like Hyperion, Glacier, Dinogy, A-Specs and a couple others. The rest of the issues don't count at all IMO and "C" ratings are marketing BS, plain and simple.
Apr 17, 2013, 01:10 PM
Shut up and fly
papabatman's Avatar
yes cell match is the key for sure the reason i asked is this local guy is selling these batterys so i bought some so far the test i do look good but your set up is the bomb was just wounder so i could figure out a way to test these

http://www.motionunlimitedusa.com/in...?route=battery
Apr 17, 2013, 01:26 PM
big ignore list/drama is dumb
brushless55's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by papabatman
yes cell match is the key for sure the reason i asked is this local guy is selling these batterys so i bought some so far the test i do look good but your set up is the bomb was just wounder so i could figure out a way to test these

http://www.motionunlimitedusa.com/in...?route=battery
Those guys are close by
Apr 17, 2013, 01:29 PM
ex-noob
Lardog's Avatar
Great write-up Joe. I really like your Product and pricing review summary. I'm not much for pouring over graphs and such but your summary provides a high level view of your testing results with a "no bull" commentary that is refreshing. Keep up the great work buddy!
Apr 17, 2013, 01:31 PM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by papabatman
yes cell match is the key for sure the reason i asked is this local guy is selling these batterys so i bought some so far the test i do look good but your set up is the bomb was just wounder so i could figure out a way to test these

http://www.motionunlimitedusa.com/in...?route=battery
As long as the brand has not already been tested you send me your packs and I will test them, post the results and send your packs back. PM me your email address if interested and we can work out the details.

Joe
Apr 17, 2013, 01:33 PM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lardog
Great write-up Joe. I really like your Product and pricing review summary. I'm not much for pouring over graphs and such but your summary provides a high level view of your testing results with a "no bull" commentary that is refreshing. Keep up the great work buddy!
Thanks Lardog! I hope we can do something to get the mfgrs to QC their stuff before they send it out to us. I for one am tired of being fed Lipo dog sh$t and not even knowing it
Last edited by MCSGUY; Apr 17, 2013 at 01:58 PM.


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