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Nov 25, 2012, 02:54 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfsarber
Yep, mine is definitely NOT scale. I just did the math and it's 14" too short.

And as such, it was very nose heavy. After installing the motors I placed the rest of the gear on top of the fuse and found it waaaaay nose heavy. The servos for rudder and elevator are now mounted in the tail as far back as I could get them. The aileron servos are about 2" in front of the ailerons. ESCs back as far as possible. With a 1000mah 3S battery just behind the CG it now balances at 2.5" from the LE. We'll see how that goes.

As far as kitting goes, it's a tough call. The price sounds good to me, but it's a fickle market.

And with that I'll quit highjacking your thread. I'll post a new thread in the Scratchbuilt Forum when I get her maidened with pictures and probably a video, too.

Harry

well as they say, its better to be nose heavy than tail heavy.. all good, will keep an eye on ya build
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Nov 25, 2012, 03:19 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
foam arrived yesterday! still waiting on parts.. so i thought i would share the results of todays progress.

have installed the aileron servos and cf wing sparing.. just waiting on motors before i go and put something somewhere and have the cg way off.. hopefully the weight of the spinners in this model will counter the excessive "tail-heaviness" i found in the depron V1.

i think thw moulding came up pretty good. have also tried out for the first time using hot glue as control surface hinges they seem very strong and have better movement than the mico hinges.. hope they hold... glad im building with epp!!

here are the pics
Nov 25, 2012, 08:38 PM
looking up, down under
scruffy1's Avatar
just a wild idea :

why not mount the aileron servos back with the pivot of the arm at the hinge line, and slide a slot in the aileron over the arm so that the servo arm directly moves the aileron ?

lighter, moves more mass to the rear, no slop, and a heller cool idea

ps: looks great so far - did you freestyle the parts with a rasp ?
Nov 26, 2012, 03:33 AM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffy1
just a wild idea :

why not mount the aileron servos back with the pivot of the arm at the hinge line, and slide a slot in the aileron over the arm so that the servo arm directly moves the aileron ?

lighter, moves more mass to the rear, no slop, and a heller cool idea

ps: looks great so far - did you freestyle the parts with a rasp ?
That's a pretty awesome idea I like it! However it won't work for this particular version of this model. The wing is too thin at the trailing edge and the servo would stick out.. Don't want that.. Lol where it is now is as far back as it can go (also need more weight is the front for the cg). Also an issue would be the trim could only be adjusted with the radio.. No linkage stopper and wire to help adjust.

Yeah it was all freestyle with a blade and iron, apart from the wing which was hot wire cut with measurements and then iron flat and round.. cheers
Nov 26, 2012, 01:16 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
right, so while DHL were taking they're sweet time and not delivering my parts today.. i decided i would have a crack at gettin everything else done. was able to complete installing the elevator and rudder servos and rods, cutting out the battery hatch, also cutting out the sections for the motor and esc, installing the motor mounts, and lastely creating the little air vent holes in the side of the nacelles. i've put two vents per nacelle as this power setup is a carbon copy of the set-up i used in my mosquito. the motors on the mossie ran quite hot until i added lots of venting. ill see how it goes on the first few flights like this and if needs more ill cut out a section at the end of the cowling on the bottom near the spinner. (this was needed in the case of the mossie)

mocked up the AUW and she comes out at 530g with a 1300mah 3s.

can probably assume and extra 20-30g for hot glue still required to finish it up..

cant wait to get this bird maidened and then painted

here are some pics of todays progress..

just realised the vents are backwards.. has been rectified
Last edited by chambo88; Nov 26, 2012 at 03:11 PM.
Nov 27, 2012, 12:28 PM
Proud of Brushless Sprouts
Commander Clumsy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambo88
hopefully the weight of the spinners in this model will counter the excessive "tail-heaviness" i found in the depron V1.
Two words: Bigger & Motors. This should be a speed demon.
Nice build, once again.




Where do you buy your EPP btw?
I found some (RC-aimed) distributors in the Netherlands and Germany but their prices are ridiculous; I could purchase a Multiplex kit from my LHS and it would be cheaper.
Contacted a local (non RC-aimed) business here in Belgium as well but they - after an inspiring talk on the phone - seem to fail to answer my emails...
Nov 27, 2012, 01:22 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Clumsy
Two words: Bigger & Motors. This should be a speed demon.
Nice build, once again.




Where do you buy your EPP btw?
I found some (RC-aimed) distributors in the Netherlands and Germany but their prices are ridiculous; I could purchase a Multiplex kit from my LHS and it would be cheaper.
Contacted a local (non RC-aimed) business here in Belgium as well but they - after an inspiring talk on the phone - seem to fail to answer my emails...

i get my epp from this website

http://www.epp-versand.de

they are the most reasonably priced epp supplier i could find in germany..

when i think that one large piece is enough for one plane, costs 15 euro delivered.. also consider shipping is flat rate so you can buy 2 or 3 more sheets and as many cf sticks as you want and pay no more on the shipping.. loving it.

dont know where you can get an epp model under 900mm ws for less than 15-20 euro..


and yes i agree about the larger motor requirements.. however you should watch the attached video... its of my ME-262, 800mm wingspan, has the same motors and props.. basically expecting the exact same performance lol and you have to admit, it scoots along at a good clip.. and dont forget, it will have no landing gear.. want it to last so im keeping it as light as possible.

now that i have the ability to aquire epp in australia.. "crm crm " the 1400mm version i promise will be a scale yet demon of speed check the specs on the first page.. guna rocket along hehe

thanks by the way.. proud of this one, however i would have liked to make the wing detachable. perhaps in the 1400mm version it might be easier to build a blind nut assembly arrangement.

ME-262 Schwalbe epp twin pusher (4 min 22 sec)
Last edited by chambo88; Nov 27, 2012 at 01:41 PM.
Nov 28, 2012, 02:06 PM
Proud of Brushless Sprouts
Commander Clumsy's Avatar
Now that's more like it, thanks! Looks to be about half the price I found, shipping is 15€ outside Germany but that's a good excuse to order a lot at once, lol.
Going to give this local distributor a call again soon, as they're only 5 km from where I live.


Love how your 262 flies both fast and slow.
But you're flying waaay too low for your cameraman, he lost it several times.
Nov 28, 2012, 04:12 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
no worries.. i should have just said i supply it hehe. cheers yeah the 262 flies very nice now i have the motors aligned on the correct thrust angle. but yeah this was to show the expected speed of the pond racer. Im plannin on taking it home to australia and then maybe retro-fitting it will some retracts and maybe a set of these:

D2826-6 2200kv Outrunner Motor

from here: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=12919

i have used one once before in an old parkzone spitfire that was nearly binned after it became a lawn dart from loss of signal.. was spinning a 7x4 prop with a 2200 3s and it sounded like a f1 car gon past imagine what two would sound like!! it was rediculously over-powered but should be good for this size if its not too heavy with a 2200 3s. that sh*t will be crazy!
Nov 28, 2012, 07:09 PM
Proud of Brushless Sprouts
Commander Clumsy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambo88
D2826-6 2200kv Outrunner Motor

from here: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=12919

i have used one once before in an old parkzone spitfire that was nearly binned after it became a lawn dart from loss of signal.. was spinning a 7x4 prop with a 2200 3s and it sounded like a f1 car gon past imagine what two would sound like!! it was rediculously over-powered but should be good for this size if its not too heavy with a 2200 3s. that sh*t will be crazy!
I don't know why, but I just visualized this tiny foam airplane flying at 100 mph with a trail of ripped off foam pieces behind it.
Nov 29, 2012, 05:13 AM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
haha tell me about it.. can very easily visualise that same thing.. if i do the motor conversion, ill seriously consider taping the plane with fibre tape and then coloured tape. maybe not a full layer of fibre tape but enough to reinforce it.
Nov 29, 2012, 02:10 PM
Proud of Brushless Sprouts
Commander Clumsy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambo88
haha tell me about it.. can very easily visualise that same thing.. if i do the motor conversion, ill seriously consider taping the plane with fibre tape and then coloured tape. maybe not a full layer of fibre tape but enough to reinforce it.
I've found out that coloured tape (much like the brown and transparent kind to seal cartboard boxes, or basically any other kind...) is pretty worthless on EPP; it will lose its grip whenever you put the tiniest amount of load to it.
It works very well when you use it to reinforce Depron, though.


To EPP, the only kind of tape that really sticks is this glass fibre reinforced one you mentioned.
Tape the lower part of the wing with two/three/four lengths and the upper part with one/two/three lengths (negative G's ftw! ), and notice how much stiffer the wing gets after each lenght of tape.
For the fuselage(s), add lengths to all four sides. Make the lengths from front to tail and trim to shape.

Glass fibre tape is about as stiff as a carbon fibre strip and only weighs half of it:
Glass Fibre Tape 24mm x 1000mm: 2g
Carbon Fibre Strip 0,5mm x 3mm x 1000mm: 3g
(Yeah... I'm one of those people who actually rolls off 1 meter of tape to get its weight )

Only disadvantage:
Glass Fibre Tape decays in sunlight (UV); it literally falls apart after being exposed to dozens/hundreds hours of outside light.
Had to peel off the remnants on two planes after 2 years of extensive flying and they didn't look pretty afterwards...
Next plane I'm going to use fibre tape on will get its paintjob after I have the tape applied, I hope this will protect the tape from decaying.
Nov 29, 2012, 03:02 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
Yeah my very first model plane was a zagi slope/combat glider. Had to cover te entire surface with a layer of fibre tape and then also a layer of colored tape. The colored tape seemed to protect the fibre tape from uv degradation. Also found that even though the colored tape doesn't stick very well to epp, it does stick very well to itself. Hence if you lay a layer coloured tape over the whole surface and created a tight skin so to speak, it doesnt matter if it doesn't stick that well as the shape of the foam keeps it from getting to wrinkly. However the layer of tape has to be tight. The tape then protects the foam from cracking or breaking as it takes most of the impact and also stops the foam from moving to much. And seeing as how I won't be combating the pond racer I might just use a few well placed strips of fibre tape and then cover the plane in coloured tape as its light as anything haha yeah I get pretty serious with weighing everything.. Found myself weighing it the other day and throwing in everything including the hot glue sticks I planned to use.. U r not alone
Dec 04, 2012, 01:37 PM
1 can never have 2 many planes
chambo88's Avatar
Thread OP
alrighty then, after a week and a half of waiting, everything i needed to finish the racer arrived. mainly the motors and the spinners.

so i fitted the motors and esc's and glued her all together.

it all went together fairly easy except for the servo wires from the ailerons and motors which didnt want to play nice..

did some testing as you can see in the video. here are the "need to know" specs:

AUW: 577g
max current draw combined : 17amps
1:1 power current: 13amps
50% power: 7amps

by the weight and power output im thinking it will need more than 50% power to stay in the air but that shouldnt be too much of a problem.

hav also included some pics of the internal section which has the battery and reciever.. as you can see there is lots of spare space still

the cg is about 37mm from the leading edge at the center of the wings (wing root) and the 1300mah needed to go right in the rear of the available space to balance.. which means that after testing i found i could easily fit a 2200mah3s shoved as far forward as possible and that balanced as well so happy days!! will mean the minimum power for sustained flight will increase but i cant see that being a problem.

the air vents also proved to be very usefull as after a full power test i held my hand infront of the prop wash just at the air-exhaust point (See pic# 6) and held a finger over the exhaust point. Nice warm air was coming out at a good rate. so that will deffinately prove usefull in flight. however it is also about -3c here atm so overheating probably wont be much of an issue.lol

here is the video and the pics

800mm pond racer power-weight test (0 min 45 sec)


you can see in the background the f-18.. will be goin to work on it as soon as this post is up! hehe
Dec 04, 2012, 03:21 PM
AMA 353531
rdeis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Clumsy
I've found out that coloured tape (much like the brown and transparent kind to seal cartboard boxes, or basically any other kind...) is pretty worthless on EPP; it will lose its grip whenever you put the tiniest amount of load to it.
Spray the EPP with 3M77 or other spray glue first, then it adheres quite well.


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