Hey now,
I'm kinda the odd bird here I guess. I buy almost nothing online either nationaly or internationaly. I buy large bundles of balsa from Lone Star every so often but other than that? Nothing really. I have a mom and pop LHS right on the way to my prefered field. They're everything we've come to expect from a LHS. High priced, low knowledge, almost no useful stock. They don't even carry all the prop sizes I use. But they're on my way and they do try. So I get quick pick up items from them and any Horizon stuff I use. I'm kind of a big fish locally so these guys give me a silly discount in hopes that I'll tell folks about them and I do that so it works for all involved.

Now for the majority of my big purchases I have a couple other LHS that I use. One is a bit out of my way but he's a good guy and he's good at sniffing out small companies with nifty stuff. Victor tries hard to give a good deal, really knows his stuff, and gives great service. So he gets my cash regularly even though his stock is somewhat limited. A bit farther away is Perry. Perry runs a place called Aero Micro. They have an online shop and advertise here so I guess they're big time. But for me they're brick and mortor local. Generally if Victor doesn't have it Perry does. Do they have ultra cheapo stuff? Nope. But I don't want that stuff. Not even batteries.
I keep reading that cheap cells are as good as expensive ones. But I've tried those cheapos and you know what? They are no where near as good as the expensive cells. So I don't bother with them.
I'm kind of poor so when I buy gear I need it to last and hold up well. I find only the higher end stuff does that and I get good prices on that kind of gear from both Victor and Perry. Why would I go anywhere else?
I buy local. I pay cash. I get good service and I'm quite satisfied. What else is there?
RobII

Originally Posted by elfwreck

Hey now,
I'm kinda the odd bird here I guess. I buy almost nothing online either nationaly or internationaly. I buy large bundles of balsa from Lone Star every so often but other than that? Nothing really. I have a mom and pop LHS right on the way to my prefered field. They're everything we've come to expect from a LHS. High priced, low knowledge, almost no useful stock. They don't even carry all the prop sizes I use. But they're on my way and they do try. So I get quick pick up items from them and any Horizon stuff I use. I'm kind of a big fish locally so these guys give me a silly discount in hopes that I'll tell folks about them and I do that so it works for all involved.

Now for the majority of my big purchases I have a couple other LHS that I use. One is a bit out of my way but he's a good guy and he's good at sniffing out small companies with nifty stuff. Victor tries hard to give a good deal, really knows his stuff, and gives great service. So he gets my cash regularly even though his stock is somewhat limited. A bit farther away is Perry. Perry runs a place called Aero Micro. They have an online shop and advertise here so I guess they're big time. But for me they're brick and mortor local. Generally if Victor doesn't have it Perry does. Do they have ultra cheapo stuff? Nope. But I don't want that stuff. Not even batteries.
I keep reading that cheap cells are as good as expensive ones. But I've tried those cheapos and you know what? They are no where near as good as the expensive cells. So I don't bother with them.
I'm kind of poor so when I buy gear I need it to last and hold up well. I find only the higher end stuff does that and I get good prices on that kind of gear from both Victor and Perry. Why would I go anywhere else?
I buy local. I pay cash. I get good service and I'm quite satisfied. What else is there?RobII

RobII,

Thanks for answering my question. I'm picking up what you are laying down. In other words, I understand.

I guess another way to ask my question: Why should I buy my RC goods from a foriegn country? I cannot think of any reasons why. (I think I'll add that to post #1).

Thanks again,

Frank

Originally Posted by Obake

There are a few things, but not many.

The greedy American businessman did this to themselves. Moved manufacturing and support jobs overseas all in the name of being compeitive. They blamed unions, wages, politics, etc for this need to be competitive. As they moved more production overseas they created an environment where they needed to move even more production overseas in order to continue to stay competitive with themselves and others.

Some of the big names in the U.S. hobby business own other 'hobbies' that many do not know about. So they lock of entire markets and control supply and demand. The current situation with our hobby is only mirroring what occurred in the train hobby.

That controlling of supply and demand by non Asian entities are one of the reasons that Asian vendors and manufacturers are doing so very well. As well, since the U.S. government refuses to control the price of oil, our economy has tanked. That forces Americans to look for the best bargain for their dollar. At the moment that is in China.

Where and what I buy, hobby related or otherwise has nothing to do with loyality or patriotism, it has to do with surviving and enjoying my day to day existance.

Welcome to the Real World America .....

You are only experiencing what all other developed nations are experiencing.

Sorry to be blunt.

Nigel

Originally Posted by Murocflyer

I guess another way to ask my question: Why should I buy my RC goods from a foriegn country? I cannot think of any reasons why. (I think I'll add that to post #1).

1. They're often A LOT cheaper
2. Service may even be better
3. They goods are made in that foreign country
4. The goods I want are sometimes not even available locally
5. Many "local" vendors import stuff and add nothing except their profit to the price I could buy it at from the aforesaid foreign country. I'm sure they need some sort of welfare system but I don't see why it should be me .
6. Did I mention it's often cheaper ?

Or putting it another way, why on earth should I buy stuff that's not quite what I want from a vendor with a poorer selection and worse prices and/or service just because they live in the same country as me ?

Oh and bear in mind that we don't all live in the same country. The "foreign country" I spend my money in may be (and has in the past been) yours .

Steve

Originally Posted by Murocflyer

RobII,

Thanks for answering my question. I'm picking up what you are laying down. In other words, I understand.

I guess another way to ask my question: Why should I buy my RC goods from a foriegn country? I cannot think of any reasons why. (I think I'll add that to post #1).

Thanks again,

Frank

i could be misunderstanding but it seems to me that you are being myopic. comparative advantage is one good reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage). the majority demand finds products undifferentiated - so they look at cost. if you decide to pick-and-choose certain arguments then you really haven't answered your question. again, i could be misunderstanding your position - perhaps if you elaborate or defend your point of view it may help.

Originally Posted by slipstick

1. They're often A LOT cheaper
2. Service may even be better
3. They goods are made in that foreign country
4. The goods I want are sometimes not even available locally
5. Many "local" vendors import stuff and add nothing except their profit to the price I could buy it at from the aforesaid foreign country. I'm sure they need some sort of welfare system but I don't see why it should be me .
6. Did I mention it's often cheaper ?

Or putting it another way, why on earth should I buy stuff that's not quite what I want from a vendor with a poorer selection and worse prices and/or service just because they live in the same country as me ?

I quite agree ...

Oh and bear in mind that we don't all live in the same country. The "foreign country" I spend my money in may be (and has in the past been) yours .

?? When was Hong Kong or China ever American ? or are we talking another country ?

Murocflyer is an American ?

Nigel

Originally Posted by slipstick

Many "local" vendors import stuff and add nothing except their profit to the price I could buy it at from the aforesaid foreign country. I'm sure they need some sort of welfare system but I don't see why it should be me .

Well, because you are going to pay for that wellfare one way or the other: if it is not in the "elevated" prices they charge, then it is through your tax system, through which that wellfare the LHS owner eventually will need is effected?

And besides, what would you do: deliver the goods for the same price you purchased it for, or add a little profit in order to pay your bills as well????

Yes, the chinese suppliers are cheaper. Why? because they pay no or virtually no tax.... they effectively rob your LHS owner from an income, but do not contribute to yur countries welfare system when the time comes he is out of business.

Nothing wrong with overseas trading, as long as there is a level playing field.
There is a reason why we pay taxes and that is to keep society going, not so much economy.
If you are buying directly from a country where taxes are pretty much non-existent, and it is a one-way trade (money predominantly going to China, goods the other way, which leads to no money in your country, AND no need to manufacture anything because everything comes from china, which leads to job loss), than that is nothing more than tax-evasion.

As long as you are buying stuff at a fair price in a country that has comparable life standards, and those countries return the favour by trading back, there is nothing wrong with that.

If you buy something in a country that exploits its labour force, where manufacturers pay no or very limited taxes, at the cost of your fellow countrymen (that DO pay taxes for in case YOU loose your job....), with as only reason "it is cheap, and why should it be me?", I am sorry, but that is, however common practise and widely accepted, just plain anti-social.

Lots of people in the western world are affected by jobs being transferred to low-wages countries, and nobody likes it. At the same time, we are promoting it by facilitating more job losses by buying directly from those countries.
In my opinion a pretty screwed-up world....

Call me naive or just plain stupid, but I refuse to buy anything directly from china, for exact the above reasons. That does not mean I don't buy chinese products (virtually no way around that) just that I buy them, and pay my dues. Within those limits, of course I too will look for the cheapest supplier.
And if I can't afford it, I reduce my buying pattern, rather than go shopping in China.

Brgds, Bert

Originally Posted by Murocflyer

.
.
.
Sending monies to a foriegn country just does not seem to make much sense to me. And it is not like we don't have any RC shops locally to us. And when I say "locally" I mean shops and businesses in the USA.
.
.

This has been tried before in the history of economics ... isolation and patriotism
hasn't been a effective cure (long term). You must be competitive in a fair way.

I think You will see the chinese dominanse crumble because they cheat. They
are undermining their own growth. I my proffession more and more companies
states in their contract "NO products from china" ! AND this is major
players!!! They may even have their main location in Asia!

To fullfill such contracts today are almost impossible because if You deliver
a piece of electronics e.g. there might be some (most) components are
made in china ...

Originally Posted by Brutus1967

.....Yes, the chinese suppliers are cheaper. Why? because they pay no or virtually no tax...................Brgds, Bert

I am sure after having been in China that Chinese Govt would love to know which companies you are talking about pay little or no taxes ....

Oh - you mean they pay no taxes in USA ?

The reasons for manufacturing moving to succh countries is manyfold and to put it down as just pure cost is wrong.

You can add in Unions, Profit margins, raw material availability, output of each worker, product failure and rejects .... the list goes on and on.

I have a close friend who was R&D manager for a very well known, world renowned Mobile Phone company. They actually compared production of their phones in various locations. Europe and USA were so bad on reject / failure rates ... plus delivery schedules that there was no way they could maintain the factories. The Chinese factory on the other hand delivered ON-TIME with a near 99% success rate with such low reject / failure that company would have been stupid to not go with Chinese production.

Whether you like it or not ... Business cannot support poor production for whatever reason.

Look at British Steel ........... when pipelines were needed in North Sea .. they couldn't deliver ... forget all the lobbying and arguments to use BS ... they could not deliver.

Nigel

I buy what I can from my local hobby shops. I've bought a lot of RTF planes (Parkzone/Hobbyzone) and a lot of materials (control horns, tape, cf rods, balsa, glue, props.)

But ... they do have frequent stock problems. They don't have my propeller; they're out of the right size control horn, etc. etc. etc.

And when it comes to the guts of my builds - motors, serovs, ESCs, lipos, etc. - they're just too bloody expensive. $50 for a 10A ESC? $40-$60 for a 2200mAh LiPo? I can't afford to build planes for that. I've built entire airplanes for $60.


($60, including flight battery and propeller. FWIW, most of that was spent at HeadsUp.)

("I guess another way to ask my question: Why should I buy my RC goods from a foriegn country? I cannot think of any reasons why. (I think I'll add that to post #1).

Thanks again,

Frank[/QUOTE]")

Globalization,it's a trend
OEM manufacturer in China get only 1% net profit (ATOI)from smart phone/tablet company based in the states,and they get margic profits out of street price worlswide
guess designed locally and manufacturing in the other lower cost country is one of globalization strategies,this also applicable to hobby biz.
just personal point f views
regards
Sam

Originally Posted by mclarkson

.
.
they're just too bloody expensive. $50 for a 10A ESC?
.
.

In my local hobby shop they now offer both the cheap ESC
for ~$19 (110NOK) and the expensive E-flite $60 (345NOK).
The cheap one is still twice the price charged by HK e.g.

Some other "local" hobby shops still don't get it and try to sell
the expensive one only. They of cause loose market margins
for each year. They also refuse to adjust the prices for RTF
planes that are obsolete, trying to sell brushed motors and
Nihm batteries to beginners just because they can't get rid
of it otherwise. They simply not deserve support .

Two words; "comparative advantage". Buy your stuff from whomever can produce it cheapest, spend your saved dollars at the local coffee shop. Everyone wins.

Lhs owners are losing the ability to compete on branded product and arf etc, they need to adapt or exit the market. It's great to retail something your passionate about, but appropriate commercial decisions put food on the table.

Ps buy Aussie wool and beef.

Originally Posted by solentlife

?? When was Hong Kong or China ever American ? or are we talking another country ?

Murocflyer is an American ?

Yes and I have in the past bought things from America. What's so strange about that ? I've also bought stuff from Canada, France, Japan, Holland, Germany, Hong Kong and a good few other places. It's a global market .

Steve

Originally Posted by Brutus1967

If you are buying directly from a country where taxes are pretty much non-existent, and it is a one-way trade (money predominantly going to China, goods the other way, which leads to no money in your country, AND no need to manufacture anything because everything comes from china, which leads to job loss), than that is nothing more than tax-evasion.

Sorry but if the country I'm living in chooses not charge taxes on goods I import then that's not my fault and I take offence at you accusing me of being a criminal. Buying goods at the best price is certainly not tax evasion, which is a crime, it is merely sensible. It can be regarded as tax avoidance but then it has always been my view that avoiding any taxes which you are not legally required to pay is the duty of any right-thinking tax payer. Your opinion, however misguided, may differ .

Steve