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Dec 10, 2012, 11:58 AM
Consumer of Toast
KrazyKoots's Avatar
Originally Posted by JoeR

An interesting observation by my friend...
Thats me!

The main race track was a bit crowded for my tastes. This is the only "big" event that I attend so I am not used to flying with so many people at one time. I Had a Mid air on my first lap which put a bad taste in my mouth for the main flight line. It did not ruin they day though. I did notice that many of the numbered flight stations had more than one pilot flying in them at a time. Im not sure if this is normal, but it did add to the crowded air space.
That aside I am a Heli pilot first so I was still able to have a good time off the main flight line.........Well sort of.... The Heli area was not very large at all. It was right next to the ETOC reserved space. the heli guys were forced to fly in what I would consider to be an unsafe area. (I never saw anyone fly anything larger than a 130X and on gent hovering a Blade SR.) so nobody's life was at risk. but it was not a very comfortable space. I am a fairly accomplished heli pilot but I do make mistakes. I had a few close calls with people walking by and people watching . As JoeR stated the heli area was abut 20ft. deep. and that was if you stood about 5ft. from the pit area. This is the 3rd time I flew at the venue and I just love the large space but it felt too small this year. I did get many flights in on my 130X but I was not able to try anything new which is what I had planned. I was forced to fly only the maneuvers I was comfortable with so that I did not crash into someone or encroach on the ETOC area.
I dont want this to come across wrong. I LOVE watching the ETOC guys fly. I feel they deserve their own space. But I deserve my own space too right?
I do plan to attend again next year and I hope that you all can figure out something to make everyone happy. Easy right!
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Dec 10, 2012, 12:41 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
A clearly marked flight line is vital to keeping people from wandering into/through the flying area. This is not a problem at just the larger meets. Every indoor venue I've flown in could benefit from clearly marked and enforced flight lines. Even small models have the potential to injure when people are in the flying area w/o eye protection. Helicopters as small as the mCPX will draw blood when flown into the face.
Dec 10, 2012, 01:28 PM
Consumer of Toast
KrazyKoots's Avatar
I agree. A 130X could cause injury as well. Also many guys there had some very fragile looking planes sitting on tables and a out of control heli could cause a lot of damage to a stick and tissue plane or a depron foamy.
I think I can agree with others here that a pilots meeting every morning would be a great idea. Maybe even have 2 during the day. one in the morning and one after lunch for late comers. The one in the middle of the day could be used to discuss and address issues found during the event as well.

+1 for pilots meetings.
+1 for more lights

Also I would like to suggest helicopter only events as well. I dont know if there would be enough people to sign up but I know I would have. All of the events this year and last were airplane only. Kind of a bummer for the heli guys.

Helicopter pylon racing would be cool. Musical helicopters with a designated landing area would be fun as well. Helicopter combat might be pushing it but you get the idea.........
Last edited by KrazyKoots; Dec 10, 2012 at 07:03 PM.
Dec 10, 2012, 03:22 PM
Registered User
I thought it was cool when all the guys flew the same type of plane in formations. That being said I would set a time aside each hour for just that. It seems like there is potential for a bad crash when 5 mph foamys are in the same airspace as a 50 mph mini jet.
Dec 10, 2012, 03:23 PM
RIP Azarr - "Old age is not for sissies"
Azarr's Avatar
Originally Posted by KrazyKoots
Thats me!

The main race track was a bit crowded for my tastes. This is the only "big" event that I attend so I am not used to flying with so many people at one time. I Had a Mid air on my first lap which put a bad taste in my mouth for the main flight line. It did not ruin they day though. I did notice that many of the numbered flight stations had more than one pilot flying in them at a time. Im not sure if this is normal, but it did add to the crowded air space.
It's just a matter of perspective. I've attended quite a few of the large indoor events and thought the racetrack area wasn't crowded at all. At JR I counted 33 in the air at the same time. Unfortunately mid airs happen and I never fly anything I'm not willing to lose. At times there were only a few actually flying. It seemed like later in the day it got more crowded which is typical. What I've found at all the events is that I get a lot of flying done early and then pick and choose my times later in the afternoon/evening. It seems like ~3pm everyone realizes time is getting short and feel the need to fly.

The flight lines were well defined, but as I said there was some confusion (at least for me) as to which locations were micro and helis - pilots were flying micros down at the vendor end, and helis/quads at both ends.

Dec 10, 2012, 03:26 PM
Registered User
Had a great time.

Could have listened to the band all day! What a treat.

Guess I'm voting for all the lights. The strobe effect took a bit of getting used to.

Althoug the head count was well over 200, flying time was never an issue.The facility is huge.

I really like the musical airplanes.

Thanks to all worked so we could play all weekend.

Even though it was a 7 hour drive I'll be back next year.
Dec 10, 2012, 09:14 PM
imho ,i thought it was AWESOME!!!!! and i will attend every year. the flying area was huge , for everyone. the price was great for the week end pass, and the little events were super fun.
Dec 10, 2012, 10:22 PM
Registered User
and I have been fighting this battle since last year. I plan to bring these comments to the attention of the people who keep saying that they think it would "be too bright".
Really.....when we fly outdoors in the summer, are they really thinking it would be brighter than the SUN!!

Seriously, if the person in charge of the lights is not a rc flyer, then they should leave it up to the pilots. It has been the same for 3 years now and the complaints have been the same for 3 years with nothing heard.

One thing I ask though is if next year nothing is going to be done to improve the heli situation then just don't have them. Like I said I almost hit a child running thru the so called heli area and that is totally unacceptable
Dec 11, 2012, 05:51 PM
Twin Warbirds Rock!
pantuner's Avatar
I'd have to agree with Azarr regarding the flying area not being crowded. Compared to some events, I'd say there were relatively few planes in the air at one time. I had no hesitation flying anything, and loved cruising around with the big Jenny.

+1 for a pilots meeting
+1 for a mid-day pilots meeting to address any issues that arise
Dec 11, 2012, 07:18 PM
Registered User
themudduck's Avatar


Guys, if we didn't take your comments and suggestions to heart and treat them seriously, I wouldn't expect you to support our event in the future. So for sure, we will pay attention to your concerns! And we will make changes. They may not occur at the pace you'd like... I would like for you to please keep in mind that this event is held at a rented venue. So the building owner (who controls everything at the facility) has the final say and we are really grateful that we can use this incredible sports facility for the weekend. The positive changes that we can implement are terrific, but we won't stop fighting for even more improvement.

We really appreciate your support, and we've posted a "thank you" letter on the HEF website home page, along with a survey form. Please feel free to post your suggestions there. I promise you that all suggestions will be read at our club meetings and I'll make sure that they are treated seriously. Here's the link:

best regards,
Marc Stermer President, MARCS
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:02 AM
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Dec 12, 2012, 05:14 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
I have read most all of the posts regarding this event. I know that Marc and his friends work very hard to pull this event off each year. This event happens just about 4 weeks after the JR Indoor event in Columbus Ohio. Then this event in Northeastern Ohio, where when it snows, usually get lots of snow, so planning this event is a real leap in faith so to speak. In many ways this weekend can go to hell in a handbasket in just a few hours. I have been to Cleveland at the I-X Center for the last large Dog Show held there each year, called the Crown Classic and the weather always plays havoic with this dog show and many times the snow gets cleared away from the weekend before, so Marc and his crew are or can be in harms way financially should there be one of those nasty storms hit.

While I don't know about the lighting, from the photos, what is there doesn't seem all that bad to me, so I can't comment on it other than from the photos.

There always some errors in running any large event. Everyone knows that happens at every event, the ability of the people running the event to adapt is what makes, in my opinion, the difference between a great event and one that is marginally successful.

As for sponsors from major suppliers will remain difficult. The JR Indoor weeks before, the AMA convention on the west coast and then an event in December is difficult to help out with large financial contributions. Not saying it couldn't happen, but with the economy the way it is now and not much change in the forseable future, that may be a longer term problem. I am sure that this event, with the large number of pilots will continue. I would come, but I can't afford two events within just a few weeks. For me it is a 9+ hour drive and then motel and food bills. Maybe next year.

So while there may be some complaints about some things, Safety is the most important, all the other things can be addressed and most will be solved with creative thinking.

From the photos, it looks like you all had one heck of a good time, lots of fun, some laughs and many flights for the pilots.

Thanks Marc and all your volunteers for doing this for the community.
Orrin Eldred

While I live in Michigan, I grew up in Avon Lake Ohio, so I know a bit about Northern Ohio and the history of snow up there, it is always the east side and up the shore of Lake Erie that usually gets whacked by snow and ice. Those NorEasters are terrible.
Dec 12, 2012, 08:51 PM
Registered User
themudduck's Avatar
Thanks for your comments Orrin. The lighting is a deceptive thing at the building we were in. It is indirect lighting and the facility is not dark. I've been at other indoor events that are much darker, and some where the lights are shining right in your eyes. So although we don't have those problems, the lighting at the HEF gave us a different issue. Management decided to only turn on half of the lights, so every other bank was dark. This makes a light/dark/light/dark "stroboscopic" effect on your eyes as you're tracking a flying model across the ceiling, which is annoying and highly distracting. It's difficult to maintain concentration on the model as a result, but those of us who fly at the facility through the flying season somehow get used to it. I guess you can get used to almost anything. (my solution is to fly low.) But for our guests at the HEF, we would like to have all of the lights on. This issue, and several others that we dealt with this past weekend, will be brought to management's attention at an upcoming meeting.

I really want to mention that I won't accept any credit for organizing or running this event - I am just one member of a team of people and I have to give credit to the other MARCS guys. I had a minor role - I got these threads going on RCGroups (thanks to Jim Graham), I posted the outdoor signs, and I managed the vendor area (I'm also the treasurer). Other members of our team took care of organizing the workers, the flightline, the setup and teardown, registration, and deserve all the credit for how well this event was run. Tony was the CD and Bernie was the announcer. AND OF COURSE we have to thank our major sponsors, including Lukes R/C, Lazertoyz, and especially Horizon Hobby for their fantastic support.

We're looking forward to making as many improvements as we can for next year. We will post dates for that as soon as we can make that official.
Dec 12, 2012, 09:39 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
Well Marc, you were the spokesperson for the event, since your name was all over this whole thread, answering questions, sorting things out for everyone who came. So in ways you were "somewhat in charge", I know how hard it is to run an event, since I go help Terry at the JR Indoor.

The Team who put this event on does a lot of work and they need to be appreciated by all the pilots who come and have fun. I know what it is like to work very hard, then some people just don't appreciate all the work that goes into such an event.

You all had some great pilot prizes, some great raffle prizes, some great trophies for those who earned them, all those items were shown in photos.

I am 200% positive that all of you will work things out with the management and the future years will get better and better.

I just have to figure out a way to get there. This event is one of those that I would put on one of the things I need come to.

I knew Bernie was going to be the announcer, we missed Tony at the JR and the pylon races, yet you got many great helpers. God Bless them All.
Orrin Eldred
Dec 12, 2012, 10:01 PM
Consumer of Toast
KrazyKoots's Avatar
Originally Posted by Conehead

The Team who put this event on does a lot of work and they need to be appreciated by all the pilots who come and have fun. I know what it is like to work very hard, then some people just don't appreciate all the work that goes into such an event.
Though I have brought up some things I would like to be different I do appreciate the event as a whole. I also am thankful for all the work that many have put in on the whole project.
I dont feel like the tone of this thread is unappreciative nor should it be. I feel that if this event is to grow larger ( which it no doubt will) certain issues should be addressed. I really enjoy the event and want to see it thrive.
I think its great that this forum is being looked at. I also will be sure to fill out the survey form on the HEFF website..

Happy holidays guys.

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