3D Fan Fold 3DX, Ultimate Bipe and Yak54...V6 - RC Groups
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Nov 25, 2003, 05:32 PM
Leave me alone!
Martin Hunter's Avatar

3D Fan Fold 3DX, Ultimate Bipe and Yak54...V6


This is the continuation of the thread started here:

part 1: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hreadid=115543

part 2: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...5&pagenumber=1

part 3: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...5&pagenumber=1

part 4: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hreadid=163580

and, finally, part 5: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...0&pagenumber=1

Carry on

Martin
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Nov 25, 2003, 05:48 PM
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34
Shortman's Avatar
Those are some huge threads! Take me a good couple days to get through them.
Nov 25, 2003, 05:49 PM
40%, 5% whats the diff?
TeamSME's Avatar
I have already looked through all of them, do yourself a favor and don't get a hernia. Go to the first thread, that's where the core amount of info is.
Sean
Nov 25, 2003, 05:51 PM
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34
Shortman's Avatar
I read that one already hehehe.
Nov 25, 2003, 06:54 PM
FoamyFactory.com
Tim H.'s Avatar
Who would have ever thought... 6 threads... Sheesh...

Tim
Nov 25, 2003, 06:58 PM
razor burn can be good
RCZohn's Avatar
heres a few piks of my 3dx
6mm depron
rz300 gws D gb
etec 3s1200
cirrus 4.4's for elev/rudd
jr 281's for ailo's
berg 5 dsp rx
cc 25 esc
11 oz auw

this is the first foam plane build for me, i didnt spend much time on the paint job(will do a nicer paint scheme on 3dx#2)

flew great with no trim needed for maiden flight

i built off the old plans and used 1/8 cf tubing instead of 4mm cf, and did notice some bending of the wing when coming off a downline

plan on adding some stressed packing tape on the fuse sides and wing to stiffen it up a little

ive noticed from other 3dx piks that people are using cf sticks? instead of tubes and wondering if they are much heavier than the tube?(cant really see how thick they are from piks) or is this the cf ribbon that comes in rolls?
Nov 25, 2003, 07:01 PM
razor burn can be good
RCZohn's Avatar
business side
Nov 25, 2003, 07:04 PM
razor burn can be good
RCZohn's Avatar
where my battery ended up for nuetral cg
Nov 25, 2003, 07:06 PM
razor burn can be good
RCZohn's Avatar
used zip tie material for pushrod guides
Nov 25, 2003, 08:10 PM
RCL
RCL
RCLanding.com
RCL's Avatar
Tim, you should be proud!

These threads are amazing, and your airplanes are amazing.

Nov 25, 2003, 08:44 PM
FoamyFactory.com
Tim H.'s Avatar
Humbled and proud too Thank you!

Tim
Nov 25, 2003, 09:25 PM
Burnin' holes in the sky!
SkyPyro's Avatar
Very nice 3DX!

Tim, congrats on V6! Glad I was around when this started, trying to play catch-up now would be too hard

Dan
Nov 25, 2003, 10:02 PM
Registered User

Lipolys


Hey i just bought 3 single 1200 e-tecs. This is gonna sound silly but........ am i supposed to wire all three in series. And if i do, how many volts will the pack be? Also..ive heard some guys actually glue the battery leads to one and other instead of soldering them. And.... the guy at the LHS told me that solder will only stick one one side of each tab/terminal.


Im stumped
Nov 25, 2003, 10:33 PM
Registered User
Yes in series, and you will need aluminum solder paste to solder the tabs. Not sure about the hot glue idea.
Nov 25, 2003, 10:38 PM
Registered User

Astro 010


Anybody have any luck using an Astro 010 on a Yak or 3DX? I've been unable to get a Razor or Himax motor, so I decided to try one of the Astro 010 motors with the machined GWS gearbox. I hooked up my stock motor to a whatt meter and tach. With the 6.6:1 gearing, 12x6 prop, and 3 lipos, I get 5200 RPM and 13.7Amps. The astro with the same configuration gets only 4100 RPM at 8.9Amps. Is this all I can expect out of this motor?
Nov 26, 2003, 01:09 AM
Registered User

Re: Astro 010


Quote:
Originally posted by nstrobel
Anybody have any luck using an Astro 010 on a Yak or 3DX? I've been unable to get a Razor or Himax motor, so I decided to try one of the Astro 010 motors with the machined GWS gearbox. I hooked up my stock motor to a whatt meter and tach. With the 6.6:1 gearing, 12x6 prop, and 3 lipos, I get 5200 RPM and 13.7Amps. The astro with the same configuration gets only 4100 RPM at 8.9Amps. Is this all I can expect out of this motor?
nstrobel I regged so I could answer your question The 010s are a great motor. I've been using the 14T in UB's and 3dx's and they work great. You are not loading the motor enough. Motocalc says your setup should make 11.8 oz.

Try the C gearbox 5.33:1, with a 12X8. That is the setup I have been using. Motocalc says 16.6oz of thrust, but I have measured it at 18.0. Motocalc says this is at 5.3 amps which sounds too good to be true, although the motor and battery don't even get warm, and I'm getting 30-minute flight times. It would be interesting to see what current you measure with the whattmeter on this setup.
Nov 26, 2003, 07:43 AM
E-Flight Addict
ronin8451's Avatar
You could also try a 13 x 6.5 prop . I am using one on my Himaxx and love it, almost too much thrust.
Nov 26, 2003, 08:04 AM
Too lazy to repair!
jperch's Avatar

Re: Lipolys


Quote:
Originally posted by Hangerash
Hey i just bought 3 single 1200 e-tecs. This is gonna sound silly but........ am i supposed to wire all three in series. And if i do, how many volts will the pack be? Also..ive heard some guys actually glue the battery leads to one and other instead of soldering them. And.... the guy at the LHS told me that solder will only stick one one side of each tab/terminal.


Im stumped
HangerRash,

Nstrobel was partially correct. You do want to wire the cells in series. However. the Etech cells have a nickel tab welded to one of the terminals (I think it is the positive terminal). This terminal is made of aluminum. But, the nickel tab will allow you to solder that side of the terminal using regular solder for electronics. The other terminal is already made of materials solderable with normal solder.

If the welded tab has been removed, then you will need the aluminum solder that Nstrobel mentioned.

The nominal voltage of a single Lithium cell is 3.7V. The maximum voltage is 4.2V. So a 3 cell pack will have a nominal voltge of 11.1V and a max voltage of 12.6V.

I hope that helps.

Joe
Nov 26, 2003, 08:51 AM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
wow...v.6...this is amazing..

i am sooooo ready to go and get on the plane for Canada....


dang..no flying for a week though...oh well..!

birdie
Nov 26, 2003, 09:12 AM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
here ya go folks...check this out...this is what it looks like where i am headed tonite...brrrr....brrrrr....

http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~lake/cam/index.html
Nov 26, 2003, 10:13 AM
And You're Not
Going to a phonebooth in Canada??
Nov 26, 2003, 10:25 AM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
hahaha! naw...going to about 5 miles from where that phone booth is...did you see all that yucky snow? ughh...

i do not do well with deep drifts..for some reason, i seem to sink!! hahahaha

at least i got plenty of "insulation"..!!
Nov 26, 2003, 11:11 AM
And You're Not
Have fun, man!! What's the occasion?? If I'm not being too nosey to ask, that is..never been to Canada
Nov 26, 2003, 11:12 AM
Registered User

Lipolys


Hey thanks for the info guys !

I read a thing on the "Radical R/C" site.......

Dave makes his Lipoly pack with isolator tabs in them so, in a multi cell pack, you can monitor, charge/discharge each cell individually without takeing the pack apart.

It states that the cell votages should never ever be more than .050 volts apart from one and other or theres a burned down house in your near future

seems logical to me...........i just checked my new cells and there not even a few .001s v apart from each other and i havent even charged/used them yet.

Any thoughts on this one ?
Nov 26, 2003, 11:28 AM
Too lazy to repair!
jperch's Avatar
A month or two ago, I purchased 12 Etech 1200's from Troy at Bishop Power. I intended to build 4, 3s packs. Just prior to that, I had two 3s packs puff on me because I was not diligent enough when making sure they were initially balanced when I assembled them into packs. Basically, I took apart three 2s packs to make two 3s packs.

So, because of the prior experience, I wanted to make darn sure these cells were really close to each other before I assembled them. My plan was to fully charge each cell one at a time then make sure they were within 0.05V of each other then assemble.

However, I started out by measuring the initial voltage of each cell. I found that they were pretty much all within 0.05V of each other already. In fact, by writing the starting voltage on each cell with a Sharpie, I was able to mix and match the cells so that I had four groups of three cells each where none of the cells within a group were more than 0.001V away from each other.

So, I changed my plan to just building the packs out of those groups. I now have several cycles on each pack. I have not checked the balance on each cell with in the pack lately but I have also not had any swelling problems either.

I don't think I have used them enough to cause an imbalance problem yet.

Joe
Nov 26, 2003, 11:58 AM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffery
Have fun, man!! What's the occasion?? If I'm not being too nosey to ask, that is..never been to Canada


am headed to see the in-laws and my wife and little girl..they have been there since May..and i sure miss that little cutie!

www.birdiesworld.com click on baby mackenzies picture pages



Nov 26, 2003, 11:59 AM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
damn..looks like my webhost is down..email is caput also...hmm...
Nov 26, 2003, 12:29 PM
Registered User

more on Li-poly connections


RCL,
I would be pleased for you to quote any of the material on my threads about Li-poly safety. The "code of conduct for Li-poly" is one of the best places to start:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hreadid=149283

A corningware dish with 4" sides is a really good container to use. Pyrex glass is also good and you will see the sides and bottom easily if swelling occurs. The temperature during Li-poly explosion reaches 300 deg C for just a few seconds. Any container that does not shatter with a burst of heat is OK. There is a lot of "micro" scrapnel that is thrown out of the pack and that is why you want sides at least 3" tall. I suggest keeping your other Li-polys out of the container unless they are charging also.

COLLECTION OF COMMENTS ON JOINING Li-Poly CELLS:

1) charge up each cell before doing anything and write the voltage with a Sharpie on the cell. All cells should be within 0.02 volts of one another in a pack.
2) cut the aluminum and tin leads short so that they just overlap with the spacer I will describe. Be careful with the scissors, it is easy to short the pack out.
3) put a toothpick or small strip of foam between the packs and glue it down. This helps air cool the inner packs much better and it permits you to quickly see if swelling is happening.
4) join the packs as needed and use Aluminum Solder-It or whatever to join the + tab. Use a hemostat to act as a heat sink when soldering the tabs. Excess heat going into the poly coating on the pack can cause micro vaccum leaks which will later cause the pack to have poor performance or maybe even swell up. Apply only as little heat as needed to get a good joint. I bend the outermost + and - tabs around my wire and use toothpicks to hold them away from the cell body when soldering.
5) I use a small amount of "hot glue" to provide "strain relief" from the joined tabs and the outer wire joints. The weight gain is minimal and this helps seal any "micro holes" that your soldering might have caused. Use no hot glue on the top of the tabs, just underneath. This permits you an electrical path to measure individual cells later.
6) use only hinge tape or other strong clear tape to wrap the top and bottom edge of the pack. Keep the center of the pack free of all wrapping so that air flows between the cells. This will pay off in terms of long life and cell safety.
7) put black electrical tape over the top of the tabs. Arrange them so that you can easily peel them back later to measure individual cell voltage. You should measure each cell about once every 10 flights. If you see more than 0.1 volt cell imbalance, you must drain each cell independently and recharge. Then remeasure that all cells are within 0.02 volts when freshly charged. If not, replace the cells that are "outliers". In real world terms, this has happened only once in 60+ packs I have made and used (not including the ones that "went south" before I could measure them).

It is trival to use a cheap DVM with "pin sharp probes" to measure each cell once a month. You can poke through the black electrical tape or peel it back, just be sure when you are done that you don't see any shiny nickel or aluminium. Try putting a Sharpie mark on a pack when you have done 5 cycles (like counting in Roman numerals). This will help you know when you should recheck and will give you an idea of how many cummulative cycles you have put on the pack. 300 cycles is the best I have gotten out of a pack. YMMV.

Hope this helps the 3DX people keep the hover higher and happier.

Ted Cooper - sometimes known as Crazy Ted
Nov 26, 2003, 12:37 PM
Registered User
bobertperry's Avatar
Tryed my 3dx a cupple days ago. Tail wobbeled at like 30 degrees eather way. I think its because of the carbon fiber bar i was trying to use did not go far enough back. Or could it be something else? I bought a longer bar and built enother plane. as soon as the wind dies down when im not working ill have another go at it.
Nov 26, 2003, 01:12 PM
Minuteman III Ex
Quags's Avatar
Shortman:

On the Lipo issue, yes the battery swelled up like a balloon and separated into thin aluminum sheets. Nothing left.
Nov 26, 2003, 01:13 PM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
i embedded a carbon tube on the bottom of my fuse ont he 3dx..runs from wing to tail feathers and really helps the "wobbles"...i just carved out the bottom and glued it in with thin CA...

makes for a cool skid too!
Nov 26, 2003, 02:33 PM
Registered User

Hockey?


Yo Birdie, you a hockey fan? I'm down in Corpus Christi and a big fan of our local team too, the Rayz. We play Fort Worth tonight. My wife and I built a trainer in Rayz colors with the (former) coach in the pilot's seat to raffle off by the booster club. I have been trying to convince them to let me fly my mini GB and Ultimate in the arena or during one of the intermissions. So far, no joy. Bundle up, ehhh. The Canadian guys say it get a bit chilly where you're going.
Larry Cox
jpflyer
Nov 26, 2003, 02:33 PM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar
a razor 300 for sale on ebay...at a normoal price!!!

hurry!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3159879220
Nov 26, 2003, 03:16 PM
Pro Bro #1008
birdie_in_texas's Avatar

Re: Hockey?


Quote:
Originally posted by jpflyer
Yo Birdie, you a hockey fan? I'm down in Corpus Christi and a big fan of our local team too, the Rayz. We play Fort Worth tonight. My wife and I built a trainer in Rayz colors with the (former) coach in the pilot's seat to raffle off by the booster club. I have been trying to convince them to let me fly my mini GB and Ultimate in the arena or during one of the intermissions. So far, no joy. Bundle up, ehhh. The Canadian guys say it get a bit chilly where you're going.
Larry Cox
jpflyer

yeah...i got into hockey as a by product of marrying a canadian..!

we used to go and see the Fort Worth Fire Play...but now we have the Brahmas...it is a lot of fun...and man..i wish they would let me fly inside, but i got a feeling i know the answer to that one..especially the way i fly..! hahahaha
Nov 26, 2003, 03:32 PM
Too lazy to repair!
jperch's Avatar
Birdie,

Maybe you need to fly something slower? Perhaps you could ask them if they will let you fly the RC blimp?

Joe
Nov 26, 2003, 04:20 PM
ProBro #261
mc71's Avatar
It seems everything Tim suggests to power these models immediatly runs out of stock. Coincidence, I think not.

Matt
Nov 26, 2003, 04:49 PM
RCL
RCL
RCLanding.com
RCL's Avatar
Crazy Ted,

Thanks for the permission on quoting. I've not decided how it will all be writen, but I think a lot of info should be put on the site. I'd like it to be easy to access and in small chunks so as we don't loose interest with an article that's long on tooth. ..Maybe an FAQ just for Li-Poly facts.

The code of conduct was a great thread. Actually I found that the other day. I think I strayed from one of your original links mentioned and found myself there by coincidence. I did copy it into a notepad for future reference and pub.

I like your Collection of Comments on joining cells. This too needs to become another part of the FAQ.

So much to do! We all need 48 hours a day.

Thanks a bunch!
Mark
Nov 26, 2003, 06:24 PM
Registered User
Mindstorm's Avatar
Hey guys. Hope you all have a great and safe weekend. I finished my 3dx and am now ready to purchase the goodies to make this bird fly. I have no idea what to buy being my fist plane and all. So many threads i have read, they all say buy this but not in stock.

Does anyone have a list of things i will need? I will check out Foamyfactory.com and see what Tim recommends.

Check out my plane. Nothing i'm sure you guys have not seen. Thanks RCA for helping me with my plane the other night. I had a blast watching you, Birdie, Gary fly their planes. Love the crashes.. lol

Tim it was a pleasure meeting you and your Fiance. Congrat's!!
As soon as i get my plane in the air i will start on the YAK..
Nov 26, 2003, 06:30 PM
E-Flight Addict
ronin8451's Avatar
No problem, Mindstorm, I don't mind getting someone in the air so they too can enjoy the "Foamies" . Everyone have a happy Turkey Day tomorrow!
Nov 26, 2003, 07:56 PM
Registered User
Dave763's Avatar
I just used the"buy it now" button and grabbed the razor 350 and phoenix 25 combo on ebay! The seller still has a razor 300.Won't be there long!
Nov 26, 2003, 08:14 PM
Registered User
Here's a pic of my Yak-54. I paid attention to weight as I built it, and ended up with AUW of 10.4oz w/ 3S 1200 ETEC, Razor 300, Phoenix 25, GWS RX, two CS-10's and an HS-81.

The power is absolutely incredible. This thing accelerates unlike any plane I have ever flown. I think it's too light though... wind bumps it around worse than my old 13oz tape-covered FFF 3DX. So, I'm gonna fire up the trim cutter and see if I can't get some lettering on there to add 3/4 oz or so. Maybe a new Yak or FoamyFactory logo, who knows. The tail is a little flimsy too, so I'm going to add another carbon rod to stiffen the tail up as mentioned earlier. It's not like I'm going to end up underpowered

Last edited by Clingman; Nov 26, 2003 at 08:16 PM.
Nov 26, 2003, 11:12 PM
Registered User

Lipolys


looks like i just made my first Lipoly rookie error.........

I bought a 105.00 dual channel charger/discharger by MRC, that says along with Nicad and NMHi it does Lipolys too, and found out the following (that is never mentioned in the instructions)

It has no voltage cut during charge or discharge

So i hooked it up anyway to one of my brand new etech 1200 cells that was showing 3.81volts so i could bring it down to 3.0 and start its first charge.

i dial in a 1amp draw and just sit there and watch it for a while
as the voltage slowly begins to drop

As this is happening im thinkin to myself,....." ya know.......if you walk away from this thing it will drain this new cell down to zero"

Course this is not a good thing.

" gee, what if i was chargeing this thing and had to sit here and watch the volt meter every second until it got to 4.3?!"

To conclude.... i think im already realizeing first hand how some equipment mnaufacturers may be going the cheap route my rewritting the literature in there manuals and on there packageing to fit the Lipoly scene without haveing to goto the extra expense to actually build a task specific machine

This things dangerous and im takeing it back
Nov 27, 2003, 04:48 AM
Registered User
lomcevek1's Avatar
Now I am new to E-Flight and I NEED a good indoor 3D machine. I fly profiles in the summer but the long winter is too much for me to take.

The problem that I am having is probably the same for everyone else. I get good recomendations of product to get but find that they are unavailable.

What is a good power setup ie Motor, gearbox, speed control, and Batt close to a razor RX-300 (unavailable).

This will go on a 3DX I am will be building. ARRRGH you can't get the stuff and I have a long Alaska winter ahead.
Nov 27, 2003, 06:10 AM
Registered User
The stuff is out there. Unfortunately, these posts get so long so fast that the info gets lost. My wife gets annoyed with me for being on the computer all the time keeping up with some of these threads


Michael
Nov 27, 2003, 06:39 AM
RCL
RCL
RCLanding.com
RCL's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by lomcevek1
What is a good power setup ie Motor, gearbox, speed control, and Batt close to a razor RX-300 (unavailable).
Motor: Razor 350 or Himax 2015-4100
Both good and very close in performance. Tough to find. The best bet might be to just place an order and wait for them to come in.

GearBox: GWS EPS350C "DS" gearing (6.6:1 ratio)
These are easy to find in stock. (Comes with motor for about $18)

Speed Control: Castle Creations Pixie 20 for brushed motor
Castle Creations Phoenix 25 for brushless motor
Again, easy to find.

Batt Pack: E-Tec 3s 1200ma Lithium Polymer
Again, easy to find.

Pinion Gear: GWS 10 tooth (for motor)
Again, easy to find.

Prop: GWS 12x6 or APC 12x6 Slowflyer
Again, easy to find.

You'll probably find these listed on your plans. If you buy the Gearbox, you get a brushed motor with it. Actually this brushed motor isn't underpowered by much. It just doesn't last very long. Take a look at Tim's Motor Comparison Chart on his website. You'll see the specs are relatively comparable. The brushed motor will work pretty darn well until you get a brushless. And at least you'll be flying and having fun right away.

hth,
Mark
Nov 27, 2003, 06:47 AM
Registered User

Antennas


I have looked at a lot of photos and I'm still not sure what you guys are doing with the antennas. How and where are they mounted on the 3DX & UB so that they don't show? Can an antenna be shortened?

Thanks, Tom
Nov 27, 2003, 07:10 AM
RCL
RCL
RCLanding.com
RCL's Avatar
Hi Tom,

Whatever you do, don't shorten your antenna. It's a specific length and needs to stay that length to "catch" the radio signals correctly.

There are a number of "shorty" antennas out there. These typically come with instructions to cut or remove your antenna from the receiver and solder the new short antenna to your unit. In my experience, these work well, but some of these will weigh more than the original wire, and so, some weight would be added to the plane. The reason they can be short is that they are "base loaded" or amplified to produce the right frequency length.

I usually just keep the antenna wire that came with the receiver and route it along the fuselage, up the vertical stab and let it hang off the back. There's only about 6" hanging off the tail. This hasn't been a problem yet. As for keeping it in place, you can just stick it with little pieces of packing (or celophane) tape, or you can put a tiny dab of hot glue every few inches.

I've seen a few people wrap or coil their antenna around a spool or a piece of cardboard to take up some length and compact the size. I've also seen it written that this is not a good idea as it can reduce the effectiveness of the antenna to "catch" the RF (Radio Frequency). This could limit the distance at which the receiver would work well and/or cause glitches.

hth,
Mark
Nov 27, 2003, 08:35 AM
Registered User
Dave763's Avatar
anyone using hacker b20 18L 4:1? will the etec 3cell1200mah be ok with this motor? I was thinking the 40" UB or the 40" Yak.
Nov 27, 2003, 09:02 AM
Registered User
Dave763's Avatar
I coiled my ant. wire on my GWS rec. and have not had a problem. But all my flying is done pretty close.
Nov 27, 2003, 09:08 AM
Registered User
Dave763's Avatar
Now I have(gotta love ebay) 2 rz 350s 1 rz300 and a hacker B20 18L. I can't believe how much fun I'm having with these planes!! Thanks again Tim.


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