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May 08, 2013, 08:08 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro
We've just re-tested the pass through mode setting it for inputs 3 and 4 only and the gain is only applied maximally at the center stick positions, and zero at the extremes on both outputs as expected. Could it be something is not connected or programmed correctly? Can you send, or post your .txt set up file so I can take a look if anything looks odd? Regarding point 2, I'm afraid currently we don't support two gain options.

Iceman, here are the txt files for you to check...Thanks
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May 08, 2013, 10:07 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Jefferson
Iceman, here are the txt files for you to check...Thanks
Looking at your Aircraft1.txt file I see you don't have pass through mode set.
Latest blog entry: BL-3G Independent review
May 08, 2013, 10:10 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportflyer
The rate mode works very well but not HH mode

In HH mode, the surfaces wander all over the place . It does not behave like in the youtube video

For example:
a) I hold the plane vertical , turn on Gyro function then activate HH function .
b) Now when I deflect the plane to the right ( yaw) and hold it there , the rudder will move to correct but will not hold the position , it drifts back to center like it was behaving in rate mode but slowly .
c) There seems to be no HH in pitch

BTW this is first time I fired it up on the bench . All trims on TX are centered electrically with all control surfaces the plane are mechanically centered.

Gyro lock in Normal mode , I adjust HH =.015 on all 3 axis. , AGC off on all axis

Please tell me what to check next ? Not sure what I did wrong.

Tks
The only think you can make sure of is that the gyro is absolutely stable during power on. HH should be better than you describe but not much. In fact we don't really recommended using it due to this gyro drift, which is worse with noise.
Latest blog entry: BL-3G Independent review
May 09, 2013, 07:56 AM
Registered User

Pass thru mode


Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro
Looking at your Aircraft1.txt file I see you don't have pass through mode set.
Sorry, I sent you the wrong file, but I tried this on a second gyro and it seems to be working fine when set on pass thru mode. I probably don't plan to use the other gyro for ailerons, but for steering only, so it should be fine. Thanks for your help.
May 09, 2013, 09:49 AM
sportflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro
The only think you can make sure of is that the gyro is absolutely stable during power on. HH should be better than you describe but not much. In fact we don't really recommended using it due to this gyro drift, which is worse with noise.
I was hoping HH would be much better than the current performance. If it keeps drifting then it wont be much use for any high alpha maneuvers .

What do you mean when you say to make sure Gyro is absolutely stable when powering on ? Do you mean on the ground before before turning on gyro with switch ? I usually take off without any gyro (unless strong cross wind is present) then turn on HH in the air as needed.

Tks

New inputs:

I did more testing. I notice a definite improvement after I matched the TX stick movement and also transferring the TX trim to the GYRO . The drift is still there but at least it works like it should .

I notice that HH does work continuously . After I switch on HH for one particular plane attitude, it will work ie tries to maintain that particular attitude But if I change the attitude of the plane and zero the Elev, Rud and Ail by recentering the sticks , the HH mode wont work and it reverts to rate mode. I have to toggle the HH switch off on in the new attitude for it to work again .I dont think think this is how it should work . Gyro is in Normal mode , would it behave differently when in Uncommnaded mode? Tks
Last edited by sportflyer; May 09, 2013 at 12:27 PM. Reason: new inputs
May 09, 2013, 04:34 PM
Registered User
Hi Iceman:

On my installation, the usb port will not be accessible. So I would likie to use the com port. Where can I get a cable?
Thanks
Alan
May 09, 2013, 09:20 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportflyer
I was hoping HH would be much better than the current performance. If it keeps drifting then it wont be much use for any high alpha maneuvers .

What do you mean when you say to make sure Gyro is absolutely stable when powering on ? Do you mean on the ground before before turning on gyro with switch ? I usually take off without any gyro (unless strong cross wind is present) then turn on HH in the air as needed.

Tks

New inputs:

I did more testing. I notice a definite improvement after I matched the TX stick movement and also transferring the TX trim to the GYRO . The drift is still there but at least it works like it should .

I notice that HH does work continuously . After I switch on HH for one particular plane attitude, it will work ie tries to maintain that particular attitude But if I change the attitude of the plane and zero the Elev, Rud and Ail by recentering the sticks , the HH mode wont work and it reverts to rate mode. I have to toggle the HH switch off on in the new attitude for it to work again .I dont think think this is how it should work . Gyro is in Normal mode , would it behave differently when in Uncommnaded mode? Tks
1) Yes, gyro should be stable when powering on, on the ground. Good point about the Tx stick matching.
2) The functionality as you describe about the HH mode exiting is correct, HH is seen as a temporary requirement and safer to have it automatically exit. We could change things to have it re-engage when stick are again central, but due to drift issues we decided to not to implement this. On our next product - the ICE-MAN Pro auto pilot there will be a fully accurate no drift HH feature (has compass and accelerometers), so we prefer to wait for that one for better feature support of HH
3) If you really insist on a more permanent type of HH then you could use uncommanded lock mode and set up the I value (Igain) on the Prof1 tab page instead.
Latest blog entry: BL-3G Independent review
May 09, 2013, 09:47 PM
sportflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro
1) Yes, gyro should be stable when powering on, on the ground. Good point about the Tx stick matching.
2) The functionality as you describe about the HH mode exiting is correct, HH is seen as a temporary requirement and safer to have it automatically exit. We could change things to have it re-engage when stick are again central, but due to drift issues we decided to not to implement this. On our next product - the ICE-MAN Pro auto pilot there will be a fully accurate no drift HH feature (has compass and accelerometers), so we prefer to wait for that one for better feature support of HH
3) If you really insist on a more permanent type of HH then you could use uncommanded lock mode and set up the I value (Igain) on the Prof1 tab page instead.
I would like to play with "more permanent HH" . I will use uncommanded mode and set the I value (gain) in Prof 1 tab page as suggested above. Should I use a gain value .015 to start with?

Can I use adv 2 tab page I gain setting to turn the HH mode on and off . What do I set the gain to ?

Tks
May 09, 2013, 09:51 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPheli
Hi Iceman:

On my installation, the usb port will not be accessible. So I would likie to use the com port. Where can I get a cable?
Thanks
Alan
We don't supply this cable but you can do as follows:
1) Get an RS232 to UART converter from here or similar store:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/449

One side:
Connect this board up to a cable as shown here:
- Rx signal to BL-3GRC "C" output Tx (center pin)
- Tx signal to BL-3GRC "C" output Rx (inner pin)
- Gnd signal to BL-3GRC "C" output Gnd (outer pin)
(The gyro must be powered up from another source such as RC Rx in the normal way)

Other side:
Connect up to PC via USB to RS232 converter cable (if no RS232 port on your PC). Can get from here:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11304 (Need to install driver on your PC too). Set port to 19,200, 8 bit, no parity, 1 stop bit, no flow control

Then enable all features of the UART port from BL-3GRC set up s/w upgrade tab (bottom half of page) by typing in following code: 9845bcfe
Last edited by IceManPro; May 09, 2013 at 10:00 PM.
May 09, 2013, 10:26 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportflyer
I would like to play with "more permanent HH" . I will use uncommanded mode and set the I value (gain) in Prof 1 tab page as suggested above. Should I use a gain value .015 to start with?

Can I use adv 2 tab page I gain setting to turn the HH mode on and off . What do I set the gain to ?

Tks

Yes, you can still use the Adv2 tab page real time switch to switch on and off. The values here will overwrite those on the Prof1 page when activated in flight. (when disabled with the stick the values will revert back to those as set up in the Prof1 tab page). Values you set are very much trial and error but you can start with a setting of say 0.015
Latest blog entry: BL-3G Independent review
May 10, 2013, 06:51 AM
Registered User
"We don't supply this cable but you can do as follows:
1) Get an RS232 to UART converter from here or similar store:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/449"

Would this also work? I admit I do not know a lot about this, but it seems like the right thing and it is much cheaper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS232...ht_3212wt_1399

Thank You!!!
Alan
May 10, 2013, 09:12 AM
sportflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro
Yes, you can still use the Adv2 tab page real time switch to switch on and off. The values here will overwrite those on the Prof1 page when activated in flight. (when disabled with the stick the values will revert back to those as set up in the Prof1 tab page). Values you set are very much trial and error but you can start with a setting of say 0.015
If I enter different value in the Adv2 page ( say .025) ) than the ones in Prof 1 page ( .015) then the switch acts like a two level Igain switch. This means that there will no longer be a rate mode. The moment I turn the gyro on , the mode will be HH ...true?

BTW what do the value of the Igain represent ?

Tks
May 10, 2013, 10:01 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPheli
"We don't supply this cable but you can do as follows:
1) Get an RS232 to UART converter from here or similar store:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/449"

Would this also work? I admit I do not know a lot about this, but it seems like the right thing and it is much cheaper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS232...ht_3212wt_1399

Thank You!!!
Alan
Looks great, all ready made.
Latest blog entry: BL-3G Independent review
May 10, 2013, 10:05 PM
IceManPro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportflyer
If I enter different value in the Adv2 page ( say .025) ) than the ones in Prof 1 page ( .015) then the switch acts like a two level Igain switch. This means that there will no longer be a rate mode. The moment I turn the gyro on , the mode will be HH ...true?

BTW what do the value of the Igain represent ?

Tks
Yes, or if you set 0 as the real time one, you can have a HH/rate mode switch. If you check up on PID controller you will see how this control system works. The I is the I of the PID controller. I stands for integrative, ie all the small gyro rates are added up so in theory the heading is found.
Latest blog entry: BL-3G Independent review
May 11, 2013, 12:10 AM
sportflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro
Yes, or if you set 0 as the real time one, you can have a HH/rate mode switch. If you check up on PID controller you will see how this control system works. The I is the I of the PID controller. I stands for integrative, ie all the small gyro rates are added up so in theory the heading is found.
Yes, I did read up on PID controller literature. Now I understand the I gain is the coefficient of the Integrative portion of the PID equation .. I can see that optimizing the values of Kg, Ki ,and Kd is not so simple a task even though there are algorithms one can use .

Just to be sure what you are saying re HH/rate sw.

If I set the real time Igain to 0 in adv tab page, then whenever I activate the Igain switch , I am getting rate gyro since the Igain =0 , when the switch is off, I am getting HH because the Igain is now the value I entered in the Prof 1 and the HH will be active whenever the sticks are centered ( uncommanded mode)

New questions: Are the TX range and trim settings saved to the PC ?
I notice I need to load the desired data set from the PC when it's connected to the GYRO . Is there a way to acquire all data that is stored in the Gyro incl Basic, Tools, Adv 1 etc besides those pages with the Acquire button?

Tks
Last edited by sportflyer; May 11, 2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: New questions:


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