HMS Scorpion (Cruiser class Brig of War) - Page 4 - RC Groups
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Oct 02, 2012, 07:28 PM
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wonderful.!!....they say a strong man revels in his strength, and a weak man wonders how he got it......we'll, i'm doing alot of wondering ......
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Oct 04, 2012, 09:57 PM
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TBowman's Avatar
Thank you Yancovitch but I do a lot of wondering as well. : )

Here is the 32 pounder carronade. I wanted to get this into the computer so I can try some assembly ideas for the working guns. I know this is well covered ground by Dan but it's all part of the fun. : )

carriage to follow.

I wasn't sure if guns in 1803 had the sights on them or if that was a later feature. Hoping an expert on the subject will let me know.

Last edited by TBowman; Oct 05, 2012 at 01:35 PM.
Oct 04, 2012, 10:28 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
Here's a pic of one of the two 32 pounders in front of Preble Hall in the Naval Academy. They are from HMS Cyane, captured by the Constitution with HMS Levant.
Oct 05, 2012, 12:00 AM
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TBowman's Avatar
Perfect Jerry...thank you.

Will make some minor tweaks before I do the carriage.

Thanks again
Oct 05, 2012, 09:04 AM
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DanL's Avatar
I took many reference pics and dimensions of a carronade ca.1812 when I was on the Brig Niagara. They are supposedly very exact reproductions of the 32 pounders on Adm. Perry's Niagara (his second flagship in Battle of Lake Erie, War of 1812).
I'll post them soon.
I built a 1/12 scale model carronade using that info. I'll post pics of that too because I can lay out the rigging for a more clear view of the details.
Also have a vid of the carronade being fired - both the real one on the ship and the 1/12 model.
Your drawings are awesome! A real talent you have....
What software are you using?

Will put the above info in the Design Details for Sqr Rigger thread.
Oct 05, 2012, 11:35 PM
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TBowman's Avatar
Hi Dan

Many thanks. I did look at all your carronades and I remember seeing the video of the one on board the Niagara firing. I've looked at several books I have here on British ships as well as images online and it seems the Royal Navy pattern was slightly different then ours(other then captured ones). I found a nice photo of the one Jerry referenced and used that to update my barrel and also started on the carriage and slide. The differences are subtle from my original but I'm much happier with it now.

I use Solidworks.

Revised 32 pounder barrel

with slide and carriage

heres a comparison of the two. I can only imagine how big the 64s from Victory would look!!!

Back to the hull now.
Last edited by TBowman; Oct 05, 2012 at 11:49 PM.
Oct 07, 2012, 03:09 PM
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TBowman's Avatar
As I plan the planking fo rthe ships outer hull, I'm starting to think about the location of the color band. I noticed that on some ships, it folows the planking and on others it does not. The original plans for the Cruizer class brig show a detail piece that runs the length of the hull and about 3/4 the way up the aft and midship gun ports. This gives me some options for the band of color.

One is shown following the gun ports and planking I have marked on the hull(top) and the other follows the detail piece as the top...the band's bottom edge then falls below the gun ports. Happy with either way really but thought I's give it some thought before committing to scribing the planking. In the book "the Brig Irene", the planking is show as I have marked it on my hull already but this doesn't have that detail piece I'm assuming may have been on earlier versions of the class along with the port and starboard rests for the mizzen boom as opposed to a center only rest seen on Irene? More food for thought.

quick color

happy building
Oct 07, 2012, 05:20 PM
meatbomber's Avatar
On teh subject of paintscheme... i rather like the version where just the top rail of the bullwark is black and the yellow stripe is following the sheer of the hull and is symetrical below the port, but then i think in the period that was left much to the discretion of teh commanding officer of the ship and or whoever supervised construction rather than a strict regulation thing

Tim also when you look at these plans and your hull you will see that the cutwater / beakhead of the original Cruizer has a different profile than on the Glassfiber hull.

One of the few things i actually acomplished on my build was to actually change the outline to the one from the original plan. Which with your attention to detail i`m thinking you will want too, as the hull as is looks like it is low in the water by the head because the hollow in the stem is actually far lower than on the original plan.
Oct 08, 2012, 12:54 PM
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TBowman's Avatar
Hi meatbomber

Thanks for the input regarding the painted band and also the hull profile. Appreciate it. Will finalize the plan for the planking as soon as I can.

Oct 09, 2012, 01:36 PM
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TBowman's Avatar
Hi all

Well, I decided I needed to see it on the model before I commit to the planking location. I know I'm probably dwelling on this too much but "measure twice, scribe once" : ) Also wanted to see how the bands of yellow look following the different lines. A few are shown with the detail strip added.

Planking lines as in the book the "brig Irene"

Planking following more to the original Cruiser class plan drawings

now that I got that out of my system I can decide which one to go with and get moving on this project. I'm leaning towards the last one.

Last edited by TBowman; Oct 09, 2012 at 02:05 PM.
Oct 09, 2012, 07:09 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
All of them are perfectly authentic, and personally, I like them all, but probably #3 best followed closely by the last one.
Oct 09, 2012, 10:01 PM
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DanL's Avatar
I actually was on paint duty to paint the yellow band on the Brig Niagara - there were always work assignments when in port.
Hanging over the side - sometimes barely hanging on - and slapping on the paint, we barely kept the color within the strakes (is that the right term???). I can't imagine a crew painting - and it has to be done pretty often - carefully along a plank line without a strake as a border.
May be a factor in the choice of pattern.
Side note - the Brits used yellow, but in a letter, Jefferson descibes the band color used on US ships as "cream".
Man, those sweep ports are so good looking....great addition.
Last edited by DanL; Oct 10, 2012 at 08:29 AM.
Oct 13, 2012, 02:17 AM
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TBowman's Avatar
Thanks Jerry and Dan.

The hull is ready for the big work-over but I started sketching some thoughts on the "poor man's" working gun compared to Dan's works of art. The guns will be made from a high-impact SLA resin. They are two-part and designed to have the breech removable. The lugs are similar to a typical bolt action with a push and turn lock. This also locates the breech in the correct position. The brass tube/sleeve is intended to protect the resin from the flash. The thought behind these is more for smoke-puff then for bang.

Only in the experimentation phase but I have everything here to do some tests. Mostly just for the fun. : ) Hope to have some gun parts soon. I plan on doing the 6 pounders the same way and am also working on some 9 and 18 pounders that would be for the Lively class frigate. Hope to show a comparison drawing soon of the various guns.

Jerry..I scaled these roughly to see just how big my dream project would be when compared to the brig. ooooooh Lively class looks so good!!!! Dimensions are approximate.

Last edited by TBowman; Oct 13, 2012 at 02:22 AM.
Oct 13, 2012, 09:27 AM
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DanL's Avatar
Your drawings are works of art! You should do a book.
On the guns....
Why an opening breech? Fastest, least complicated reload is from the muzzle end. You cant get to the breech when the gun is onboard. Syren initial gun design had opening breeches for access to install the ignitor wires, but that got complicated and proved unworkable.
See this post - closest to what I have today:
Carriage and breech sleeve can remain onboard and be fully rigged. The barrel insert can be pulled out for loading, cleaning, service, etc.
Some comments:
No paint needed inside or at edge of brass barrel - blackens with firing of BP
"Blacken-It" used to blacken brass, not paint.
Firing barrels need service - cleaning, ignitor replacement. You want barrels off the model for that.
Design should allow for rigging the carriage but still have barrel easily removable.
Many, many factors depending on your objectives.
I'll work up one of my kindergarten drawings (compared to yours) showing my latest thoughts on scale gun design if it might fit your objectives.
Oct 13, 2012, 11:35 AM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Here is my latest thought on getting both scale gun appearance and BP firing functionality.
This approach has worked very well.

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