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Oct 15, 2012, 09:00 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickn816 View Post
Has anybody there actually built this thing? Using the instructions that come with it?

The descriptions for the aileron servos are adequate. Take another look at the instructions for the flap servos. I presume we use the 3-inch extensions, but the instructions are silent.

Page 13 - a glue stick? What are you talking about?

Why does the flap servo cover have a slot in it? What should we use to glue the servo fairings to the wing? A little help here, guys.

And, look at page 20. There are two sets of camber settings. What should I do?

Frustrated.

Rick
Step 6 in the PDF: "The slot provides clearance for the servo horn."
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Oct 15, 2012, 09:23 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickn816 View Post
snip...

Frustrated.

Rick
Rick,

I feel and understand your frustration. When I got my first "real" sailplane package, a Polecat Thermal Dancer, it came with three photo copied pages of instructions. One had about 16 lines that said ... do this.

The other two were angle diagrams that I didn't understand at all. I was lost.

Fortunately the good people of RC Groups helped me through the assembly. I am sure some laughed out loud with some of my questions. I had come from the RTF world and had never put something like this together before.

What should have taken about 10 hours took 6 weeks as I struggled to understand terms I had never seen before. And it was clear that the instructions assumed I had done this before.

The instructions that come with Mystique are far more detailed and step by step than what I had. And I got mine together and it flew great. Yours will too.

Just keep asking questions. Don't be embarrassed as there are 16 other people reading along hopeful that you will ask their question so they don't have to. And you will help turn this thread into a valueable resource for those who will follow.

Ask away buddy! Ask away!
Oct 15, 2012, 11:17 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickn816 View Post
Page 13 - a glue stick? What are you talking about?


And, look at page 20. There are two sets of camber settings. What should I do?

Frustrated.

Rick
In between steps 14 and 15, in the "E-tips" box, the manual recommends coating the last 1/2 inch of the Horizontal stabilizer rods with some adhesive from a Glue Stick. This would be to keep the stab halves together during flight yet would make them easy to separate for transport.

Here is a glue stick:

http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...zsDL:13ddq0tfm

I gather that people use various ways to keep an all-flying stab together:

wax, as in sticky, natural beeswax
low strength adhesive: glue stick
Thickening the rod ends in various ways, like with a few drops of medium CA
putting a slight bend in the end of the rod(s) for a friction fit

As for the camber settings, the manual assumes you know that changes to the wing's shape via surface deflection, both up and down, are collectively known as camber changes. Folks also refer to the upward surface deflection as "Reflex". You use the mixing capabilities of your radio to set your wing shape (both ailerons and flaps moving in the same direction) for various flight conditions. Cambered down for more lift in a thermal, cambered up (reflexed) for more speed to get out of an area of sink.

--Jason
Last edited by Jasong911; Oct 15, 2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Radio reference
Oct 15, 2012, 11:47 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
Ahh, the glue stick comment is on page 26 of the .pdf version. Funny but the find feature did not find that.

Jason has it exactly right about the glue stick. You are not trying to glue the stab halves to the rods, you are trying to make them tacky so that they are less likely to slip apart.

This is a common practice on gliders with fully flying stabs of this design. From $100 wood kits like the Sagitta 600 (see photo below) to the $1900 4 meter Xplorer.
http://www.soaringusa.com/Xplorer-4000-ST-Lite.html

The stab halves just slide on to the rods. And, generally they just stay there by friction. But many people will use that glue stick or bees wax so that they have more friction as they go in. At the end of the day you just slide them off for easy transport. Similar to a yellow post-it note. It sticks but comes right off.

In the photo below you see my Sagitta 600. It has the same type of slide on stab halves. This used wire rods to mount to the tail. I permanently glued the wires into one half just so I would not forget to bring them to the field. CA works for that.

At the field I just bent one of the wires slightly so that there was more friction as I slid it on. Never had a problem. I would do a visual check after each flight and occasionally I would just "snug" it up a bit, but never had a problem with them coming off. Others use bees wax which is kinda sticky.
Last edited by aeajr; Oct 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM.
Oct 15, 2012, 01:13 PM
RCHN #150
Rickn816's Avatar
Thanks, guys. I know I can count on you to help get this together.

This is my first "real" sailplane. I've listened to the Horizon techs on several podcasts talk about lousy instructions, and these criticisms are offered to help improve the product.

The point is, if they are marketing this for people like me who want to upgrade from a Radian or Radian Pro, they need to be more clear and more specific in their printed instructions.

BTW, pulling the servo leads with extensions took me about an hour. The holes are almost large enough for the connectors to slide through. And, the pushrods in the wing are very difficult to connect. No blood, but I nearly gave up.

Thanks again.

Rick
Oct 15, 2012, 01:47 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickn816 View Post
Thanks, guys. I know I can count on you to help get this together.

This is my first "real" sailplane. I've listened to the Horizon techs on several podcasts talk about lousy instructions, and these criticisms are offered to help improve the product.

The point is, if they are marketing this for people like me who want to upgrade from a Radian or Radian Pro, they need to be more clear and more specific in their printed instructions.

BTW, pulling the servo leads with extensions took me about an hour. The holes are almost large enough for the connectors to slide through. And, the pushrods in the wing are very difficult to connect. No blood, but I nearly gave up.

Thanks again.

Rick
If you do a lot of this you will buy a kit and make your own extensions. The wire goes through and you put the ends on it.

Keep at it. You will get there. Then YOU will be the guy helping the next guys.

If you can, take photos of what you did. If you overcame a problem, post how you did it, again with photos. It helps Horizon improve their instructions and it will help the next guy get past that problem more easily.

THAT is why we all love built threads. We learn so much from one another. Before you are done I am sure I will learn a few tricks from you.
Oct 15, 2012, 02:39 PM
Mis-guided heli guy
Jeff_edge540's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickn816 View Post
Thanks, guys. I know I can count on you to help get this together.

This is my first "real" sailplane. I've listened to the Horizon techs on several podcasts talk about lousy instructions, and these criticisms are offered to help improve the product.

The point is, if they are marketing this for people like me who want to upgrade from a Radian or Radian Pro, they need to be more clear and more specific in their printed instructions.

BTW, pulling the servo leads with extensions took me about an hour. The holes are almost large enough for the connectors to slide through. And, the pushrods in the wing are very difficult to connect. No blood, but I nearly gave up.

Thanks again.

Rick

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is struggling through the build. I've been assembling ARF's for almost 20 years now and I've come to expect every step to be described and/or illustrated on a top-quality ARF from a major distributor. This manual misses a lot of details (more than I care to detail here). For example, the flap & aileron pushrods look like they are bent in the photo showing their insertion. However, there is no mention of this in text & I'm not sure it's possible to insert them without being bent.
Oct 15, 2012, 03:26 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
Did you contact HH customer support? on any of these issues?
Oct 15, 2012, 03:29 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
BTW, I see how the manual tells you to pull the servo extensions through. That might work but more likely the plug will go sideways and hang up.

Tie it as shown. Then run the string down the center of the plug so it is in line, going away from the wire, and tape it to the plug so it will pull through straight.

Looking at the servo arm, I agree, in the photo it looks like he connecting rod is bent. That should be outlined in the instructions. They should even include a diagram showing the exact bend needed so you can shape it before you attach it.
Oct 15, 2012, 03:55 PM
RCHN #150
Rickn816's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
If you do a lot of this you will buy a kit and make your own extensions.
I usually do. I have all the parts and all of the tools. But this time I wanted to do it "by the book."

And, it was the connection between the servo lead and the extension that hung up. So the way to do it is to feed bare wire through, then add the connectors.
Which I usually have to do a couple of times due to old eyes.

I'm ready to glue the rudder hinges, but I need to stop at the local pharmacy first.

You guys are great.

Rick
Oct 16, 2012, 10:27 AM
RCHN #150
Rickn816's Avatar
As long as I'm whining about the kit, when I set up the elevator and rudder pushrods, I found that the black "keepers" were (1) not strong enough and (2) not drilled for the size of the pushrod.

All that is remaining is to mount the motor. I hope to maiden this weekend. I'm excited.

Rick

Manual, CG 120 mm. back from fuel tank. OMG.
Last edited by Rickn816; Oct 17, 2012 at 09:11 PM. Reason: More whining
Oct 16, 2012, 11:04 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
OK, now you have me excited too. Good luc!

Make sure you do some good hand throws first. Don't test it with power till you are happy with power off hand throws. If it won't glide nicely out of your hand with the power off you don't want to see what it will do with the power on.

Video example of a hand launch
rc sailplane bird of time (0 min 17 sec)

RC Glider test flight #2 (0 min 49 sec)


Notice in the videos that they throw level or even slightly down. Never up. If you do accidentialy toss it upward, immediately give it a touch of down or it will stall.

When I put up a new glider, pure or E, I look for the tall grass to do some test throws. I may do 20 hand throws before it ever sees power, a hi-start or a winch. This was true of my Radian and my Supras. I adjust trims and sometimes CG as well. When it comes off my hand smooth and level, then I can really launch it, but not before.

This has saved more than one glider.
Oct 16, 2012, 02:23 PM
espritmodel.com
Or do it my way.

Zb/Esprit Model



Esprit Model Pulsar 3 2S (1 min 18 sec)
Oct 16, 2012, 02:46 PM
Registered User
You must be really desperate to sell your stuff.
Oct 16, 2012, 02:47 PM
Mis-guided heli guy
Jeff_edge540's Avatar
Esprit - whats with highjacking this thread so much?


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