Thread Tools
Jul 18, 2019, 01:05 PM
This is your brain on heli's
rhodesengr's Avatar

flap diagram


This is the best diagram I have found showing how to do flaps setup. It is a great diagram because it shows all three things you need to know: TX output (pulse width), servo horn position, and flasp position.

Note that it shows using the 27 degree template when the pulse is at center and the arm is at 90. I just found the template hard to use. I found it easier to subtrim the horn towards up and adjust the rod for Neutral.

Whether the horn is offset physically forward or backward depends on the control scheme so that is why I say offset toward "up".
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Jul 18, 2019, 04:08 PM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesengr
This is the best diagram I have found showing how to do flaps setup. It is a great diagram because it shows all three things you need to know: TX output (pulse width), servo horn position, and flasp position.

Note that it shows using the 27 degree template when the pulse is at center and the arm is at 90. I just found the template hard to use. I found it easier to subtrim the horn towards up and adjust the rod for Neutral.

Whether the horn is offset physically forward or backward depends on the control scheme so that is why I say offset toward "up".
Mate that is awesome stuff, thanks very much for that.

I'm tipping the ails/rud/ele are much simpler...what throws do you like for those on the Wally?
Jul 18, 2019, 06:36 PM
This is your brain on heli's
rhodesengr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbymods
Mate that is awesome stuff, thanks very much for that.

I'm tipping the ails/rud/ele are much simpler...what throws do you like for those on the Wally?
yeah well you have no idea how much digging it took to find the right resources about flap setup so glad it helps you

FYI, it is covered in the manual that comes with the DX18 template from red-sailplane. The focus is on the method to program the DX18, but the concept is also covered which is the same for any plane. Just the method to achieve it in the TX varies.

As for throws for aileron, elevator and rudder, I don't remember. Aren't they in the manual? I think if you do something like +-10mm, you won't be far off.
Jul 19, 2019, 02:39 AM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesengr
yeah well you have no idea how much digging it took to find the right resources about flap setup so glad it helps you

FYI, it is covered in the manual that comes with the DX18 template from red-sailplane. The focus is on the method to program the DX18, but the concept is also covered which is the same for any plane. Just the method to achieve it in the TX varies.

As for throws for aileron, elevator and rudder, I don't remember. Aren't they in the manual? I think if you do something like +-10mm, you won't be far off.
All good mate, I do appreciate the digging and typing you did there. Thanks again.

Actually been all over it today, and I can assure you there doesn't (to me at least) seem much similar between the Spektrum and Taranis. I have both.

Bit of a brain rupture, but I've spent the day with "Painless360" on YT, and I've now got updated firmware/bootloader, fully working ails and partially (just needing to use your setup diagram) working flaps, and working telemetry with voltage sensor. No big deal for some, but a bloody big deal for me lol.

I've got into setting it up via txcompanion rather than on the radio itself, which seems to be working better for me.

I'm good on the spanners and terrible on the keyboard, which is why I'm using this model to learn all about opentx.

The build itself is looking good...especially my plug in wings which seem to be working reliably connection wise. About time I flew the thing though..

EDIT.

Actually got it all set up that I'm comfortable with fitting it up and flying it. Club day tomorrow, but I don't want to rush all the taping etc and it's beer o'clock down here now anyway.

It's tricky to get the flaps servos set to those recommended throws, but I'm close with my subtrims and I'll play with extending the endpoints out to get the throws where I want them.

I do love the absolute wealth of options with the Taranis, but you do need to go and find them.
Last edited by hobbymods; Jul 19, 2019 at 04:21 AM.
Jul 19, 2019, 10:46 AM
This is your brain on heli's
rhodesengr's Avatar
Well like I said, I have no clue how to do anything with Taranis, but you have to assume that it is possible. Lots of Taranis threads in the Radio section.

What you want to end up with getting flaps down to as close 90 degrees as possible but leave enough on the Up side to do Camber/Reflex and be able to move with ailerons (about half as much).

Getting the flaps down to anywhere near 90 on any plane is a real trick. At some point the control rod is going to hit the bottom of the wing or you will have some other form of mechanical interference. Everything involved with the control rod comes into play: Which hole you use at each end, trimming the snap links on the rods, I think I made a little dent on the TE for the link to drop below the bottom surface. Walrus has pre-mounted servos and link positions, but moving the servo and the horn on the flap can change the angles and geometry and allow for more flap travel.

I didn't move the servo or the flap horn but I did have to remake the control rods so i could use the offset method. I don't get 90 degrees but I get way more than the stock setup.
Jul 19, 2019, 04:58 PM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesengr
Well like I said, I have no clue how to do anything with Taranis, but you have to assume that it is possible. Lots of Taranis threads in the Radio section.

What you want to end up with getting flaps down to as close 90 degrees as possible but leave enough on the Up side to do Camber/Reflex and be able to move with ailerons (about half as much).

Getting the flaps down to anywhere near 90 on any plane is a real trick. At some point the control rod is going to hit the bottom of the wing or you will have some other form of mechanical interference. Everything involved with the control rod comes into play: Which hole you use at each end, trimming the snap links on the rods, I think I made a little dent on the TE for the link to drop below the bottom surface. Walrus has pre-mounted servos and link positions, but moving the servo and the horn on the flap can change the angles and geometry and allow for more flap travel.

I didn't move the servo or the flap horn but I did have to remake the control rods so i could use the offset method. I don't get 90 degrees but I get way more than the stock setup.
Copy that.

I do have the option to extend the endpoints right out to 150% either end, which may help but I'll have to be careful not to bust a servo I guess.

I've seen the angle linkages etc that have been done with flaps, and I'll set it up as best I can. I doubt I'll bother with the combining flaps/ails, but best I make it possible in case I want that in the future.
Jul 21, 2019, 05:42 AM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Pretty much done and will try to get a maiden/tuning flight in this week.

Got the flaps working basically, 2 settings of downward deployment only. I'm nowhere near 90 degrees, but I'm hard up against the fillet/edge of the foam hinge. I ended turning the flap horn backwards and turning both servo horns a notch or two toward the trailing edge, which made the existing linkages fit without any binding or fouling.

I couldn't be bothered spending any more time jerking around with it, and am happy enough to try it now with roughly 30 and 70 degrees of deflection. I added 10 deg of down elevator into the mix for starters. Flaps seem to be a black art, and there's a million ways to do it on the net...all different.

COG worked out well, just behind the servo cable. Should end up right on it with all the cockpit assembled (only used the foam base) and possibly an aluminium spinner. Battery is nosed right up front and out of the way of the servos. All the birdsnest of wires and the receiver are down in the belly of the beast, out of the way.

Prop blades are Gemfan 10x6. Didn't even bother with the stock blades just looking at them, let alone all the complaints in this thread. Seems to give a decent pull on 3S, still wasn't all that amazing. Won't comment too much until I've flown it, but I'm already wondering if 4S would kill the motor with those props...I do have a 40A Plush esc after all.

Very pleased with my 3D printed plug mounts and plug in wings. Plugs straight in each time with no signs of trouble at all...yet. With the big wing bolt/pins I made, they'd have to be really ripped out before the plug had pulled enough to disconnect. Foam is a good material for this sort of mod, as it allows a little movement and alignment of the MPX plugs.

All up weight is 950gms, which surprised me considering how much gear I've thrown at it. Looks like it'll be 1kg neat with a little all in one FPV setup or Mobius or whatever I do.











Jul 21, 2019, 04:48 PM
aka: Major Tom
Hobbymods ...... SWEET. Very nice!
Jul 21, 2019, 04:56 PM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shurt
Hobbymods ...... SWEET. Very nice!
Thank you!

This one will hopefully be my club basher. I really liked flaying my old powered up AXN around, and hopefully this will be it's replacement, hence no paint job etc. I've got my high wing trainer etc, but a glider you can float or flog is always fun for me.

The Taranis has been difficult for me. A very steep learning curve for an old bloke, lol.
Jul 23, 2019, 11:35 PM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
So I maidened mine today under some of the most trying conditions I've ever flown in. Wind so strong that it was blowing off my Akubra (an Australian hat known for NOT blowing off).

I must say that I was delighted with this bird, absolutely loved it. I can't understand how some on here have been unhappy, and would suggest it's ether set up wrong or there expectations are wrong for this sort of model. Old boys at the club seemed pretty impressed with how it flew as well (I'm am a novice pilot of about 1 years experience).

Power.

No shortage at all, pulls great at half throttle and pulls away firmly if you punch it through. Remember I have 10x6 prop blades and a 40A Plush esc (set on medium timing and with brake on). No sign of heat/noise/drama anywhere with a 3S 2200mAh pack.

Efficiency.

Awesome. I set the timer for 10min, and over 4 packs of medium flying (mostly with power on due to the wind) I came down at 10min+ with 3.8-3.9v per cell each time. On a good day with some floating I'm sure you could get 15, even 20 min. Again, I think the prop/esc/batt combo I'm running might be better suited than the stock setup, as I have the 1100kv motor.

Handling.

Considering I was flying in hard gusting wind I felt it did exceptionally well. Think like a bigger, meaner AXN floater jet. Amazingly, I didn't have to trim it at all! Nothing! I did have an issue with my mods making it slightly tail heavy, and the first flight was with the COG 5mm behind the servo cable...no good at all there. For me, best results came between the servo cable and 5mm in front of it...big difference with lots of potential for an unscheduled landing if you've got the COG too far back. I had to sit my pack up into the nose cone a little to get COG. I'm thinking an ally prop spinner might give me that little extra weight in the nose along with a better look.

Turns are beautiful once you get the feel for it. It seems to drag the tail a little, but once you're onto it a little rudder makes the turns look great...nice and swoopy, but it'll turn tightly as well. I don't use a mix between ails and rudder, as I believe in manual flight for me until further notice. I haven't set my end points yet, and might try a little ail differential on this one.

I did have major dramas at full speed with turns into the wind...the wing would drop and she'd lose control until I backed off the throttle. I'm fairly certain the gale force winds were just finding the limits of this bird in turns...it flew too well generally to suspect a major trim or adjustment issue. My high wing trainer did exactly the same thing today, only a hundred times worse and was landed and put away for the day.

Flaps were tested up high while floating, and certainly gave some lift but might have not liked being deployed in gale force winds. I did mix in 10% down elevator, which was a bit too much (bobbed down a little) so I'll try 6-8% on that perfect calm day. To be honest it floats ridiculously well (AXN landing style) as it is, and I felt no need for the flaps today. Landings are long, slow and smooth. You just need to push her down...she won't go down by herself (gigitty).

Mods.

Love the plug in wings! Perfect to take in our little Kia, and no sign of problems despite the wings taking an absolute buffeting in the wind. The bigger prop and ESC are a no brainer, as you've got the pull and enough bec for 6 servos. Putting the RX in the belly really cleans up the battery area and makes life less complicated.

Future mods.

Not much. I've got a little HK flaps/ails angle gauge coming, so I'll dial them all in perfectly. I'd like an ally prop spinner for looks, durability and a little extra weight in the front. If I frag this motor out I'll most certainly try a Sunnysky Angel series 2212 1250kv with the same prop on 3S for just a bit more/smoother power, but I'm not changing it out for the hell of it.

Things I'd do differently.

I'd possibly go for the HK blue 30A esc instead of the 40A Plush. The only reason I didn't was they were out of stock and I had this Plush sitting here. The HK blue 30A has been an excellent esc for me. I've absolutely caned and cooked them without one ever failing (permanently that is, they can be pushed into OL protection lol), and I'm sure they'd be fine if ventilated (Walrus venting is good as is, except for sucking grass like a vacuum cleaner). I'd even consider a little 30A quad esc and separate switching BEC to be honest...always wanted to try that. I actually wonder if this wouldn't be a good mid/long range fpv bird with something like a matek wing controller for stabilized flight while you've got the goggles on and RTH in case of lost signal. When you see some people having trouble flying/landing mini talon's etc, I wonder how this Wally would go with it's good manners and big fat fuse to fit it all in. If I was doing that I might try some good servos, like Emax digital in resin gears (don't need metal gears in everything). If I didn't have this C1 Chaser here NIB I would seriously look at doing another.

Don't mean to gush, but this bird is beautiful for me. You just need to know the type of plane it is and what it is good for. If you enjoyed your AXN floater, this is the next step up. I have other planes for other purposes, and I just wonder a little if some of the other reviews here aren't wanting performance that this sort of plane just doesn't do.
Last edited by hobbymods; Jul 24, 2019 at 03:59 PM.
Aug 04, 2019, 11:41 PM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Ok,

So as this thread seems to have played out, I will wind it up by saying I've had mixed results with this model.

This is the first model I've had or built that was extremely sensitive to COG. Quite literally, mine becomes almost completely unflyable if the COG is behind the servo wire channel by even a mm or two, which I have found out the hard way unfortunately. The way mine is set up I need the battery jammed all the way up into the nose barely balances, and even then just 3 more gms of weight added there made it much better, and it even started gliding (which seems odd, but it is what it is). I've got an ally prop spinner coming, and I feel pretty sure that will give me the COG I need. It really doesn't like strong wing either, which seems to be a daily feature at our club lately.

I'm having another issue I've not seen, in that when I fly at full throttle I lose all controls and becomes non responsive until I back right off the throttle. Range test has been good, so I'm assuming that the BEC on my Turnigy Plush ESC is either failing or not up to the job...can't see any other reason? One of the blokes at the club didn't like the way I've run my antennas (he didn't like my throws either, said they were way too much). I'm running a 10" prop on 3S, and I have no idea yet of what current I'm pulling, but to be honest I thought a 30A ESC should be fine, let alone a a 40A I have fitted (everything is cool after flights). I'd better try a 9" folder next flight...

All in all I still like this bird, and it looks great in the air. I dialed in some differential in the ails which allowed more yank and bank without needing as much rudder to keep the tail up in turns.

I'm sure I can dial this in better, but it hasn't been a walk up start and the standard (noisy) motor & electronics have been questionable enough that I'm already considering grabbing a phoenix 1600 bare kit and building it without flaps and the drivetrain of my choice. The Walrus lands gracefully by the way without flaps, and I've not really needed to use them landing or in the air.

Not a big moan by the way, I'm sure I'll make it right. I still flew 4 packs today @ 12 minutes each of mixed flying.
Aug 05, 2019, 06:13 PM
This is your brain on heli's
rhodesengr's Avatar
I think your posts are interesting. People tend to pop in and out of this thread.

I have not found the COG issue to be a big deal but I just checked it once during my initial setup and have not messed with it.

What size battery are you using? I am using an 1800. Some people try to cram larger batteries in there and that can affect the CG.

Not sure what to say about your loss of control at full power. I don't see that. I would think if your BEC was browning out, you would go into failsafe and the throttle would drop to zero. So it might be something else. You could try an external BEC and see of that helps.
Aug 06, 2019, 05:46 AM
Registered User
hobbymods's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesengr
I think your posts are interesting. People tend to pop in and out of this thread.

I have not found the COG issue to be a big deal but I just checked it once during my initial setup and have not messed with it.

What size battery are you using? I am using an 1800. Some people try to cram larger batteries in there and that can affect the CG.

Not sure what to say about your loss of control at full power. I don't see that. I would think if your BEC was browning out, you would go into failsafe and the throttle would drop to zero. So it might be something else. You could try an external BEC and see of that helps.
Thank you.

Yes it is a weird one, haven't had this fault ever before.

I'm using a 3S 2200, simply because that's what I have, and I can just get it to balance. I'm at 980gms all up, which has to be acceptable with those wings. I am very familiar with COG, setting up throws etc.

Yes I agree that it should go into failsafe if browning out, and if the BEC was faulty it wouldn't likely get better again.

I've re routed the antennas to a proper 90 degrees to each other now, as first attempt to diagnose this dropping out. One of the guys at the club didn't like how I had them.

For tomorrow I've also packed a set of 9" blades, so if the antennas routing hasn't changed anything I'll try the smaller prop in case I'm pushing the esc/motor too hard.

Another possibility is that my wings are flexing enough to upset my MPX plus in the wings, but I really doubt it (and hope it isn't) as I did it pretty carefully, and the 2 big wing pin/bolts I've made hold right at the wing root, right near the plugs...they'd really have to rip out or something to give trouble, and there'd be visible damage. The plugs are mounted in foam with flexible mucilage foam glue.

At least I can diagnose the first 2 tomorrow.
Aug 06, 2019, 09:35 AM
This is your brain on heli's
rhodesengr's Avatar
well keep "plugging" happy to discuss as needed. Sound like you have a plan. Do you have any sort of telemetry or logging? I don't bother with it much but it is very useful when trying to troubleshoot these kind of problems. You can rule out BEC voltage drops. Even if you don't have telelmetry RX/TX, you can put an Eagletree elogger on board which will record your flight. Then you can look at the data on your PC afterwards. You at least want to look at the BEC voltage and RX connection.
Aug 06, 2019, 09:54 AM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
Couple of thoughts, both relevant to your receiver.

My receivers have an led that goes solid-on upon bind. If power is lost in flight and they "reboot" the led changes to blinking for the rest of the flight. That aids in troubleshooting after in-flight loss of control.

As to routing the antennas. If you have a diversity receiver, both antennas are active, alternate, and putting them at 90 degrees is not mandatory, but a good idea. However many "two antenna receivers" have only one active antenna and the other is a passive reflector. Optimally, those two leads should point directly away from each other.

But given it's a full-power problem, I doubt it's antennas. Brown-out is more likely. You should verify all your components are within ratings using a wattmeter. And do full throttle bench testing to check for battery sag.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Hobby King 2.1 FC and Hexcopter in y6? Need Help... g00bd0g Multirotor Drone Talk 3 Nov 05, 2015 09:12 AM
Sold Submarine 1/60 Walrus w/ D&E 3.5 WTC BrittB Boats (FS/W) 1 Mar 29, 2012 06:16 PM
Sold (1) Hobby King 5A Balance Chargers rdcskkrose Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 5 Mar 18, 2012 01:36 PM
New Product Hobby King P-38 1.4m minirips2 Electric Warbirds 0 Sep 23, 2010 12:09 PM