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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:53 PM
Norman Adlam is online now
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Originally Posted by Jim Thomerson View Post
Some years back, I had a conversation with an knowledgable person about defects in our justice system. He said that it would never be changed, because so many people make their living off it. I am afraid there is some truth in that. If we decriminalized drugs, a number of private prisons would go bankrupt, for example.

We didn't learn a thing from prohibition. Prohibition funded the rise of organized crime, nearly bankrupted the government from loss of liquor tax revenue, created a generation of scofflaws, and ruined the lives of a fair number of people with bad liquor.
Now that at least has some interesting points,Jim!

Do you consider drug addiction to be at the same 'level' as drink etc addiction (regarding the impact on social and criminal activities)?
Old Jul 21, 2012, 03:17 PM
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I don't think prohibition destroyed a country like drug trafficking has done to Mexico. On the other hand, in the USA, we have a major problem with misuse of legal prescription drugs. If this is a problem in other countries where medical drugs are readily available without prescription, I am not aware of it. In Venezuela, for example, you just go to the Pharmacia and tell them what you want.
Old Jul 21, 2012, 09:55 PM
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Criminalization of addiction simply turns one problem - addiction - into two problems - addiction and trafficking crime.

Decriminalization does not mean society has to approve of users/addicts any more than it has to approve of alcoholics - we still retain our regulation of behavior both socially and criminally.

what we are doing now is not working
Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by radix2 View Post
Criminalization of addiction simply turns one problem - addiction - into two problems - addiction and trafficking crime.

Decriminalization does not mean society has to approve of users/addicts any more than it has to approve of alcoholics - we still retain our regulation of behavior both socially and criminally.

what we are doing now is not working


Well said, +1
Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by radix2 View Post
Criminalization of addiction simply turns one problem - addiction - into two problems - addiction and trafficking crime.

Decriminalization does not mean society has to approve of users/addicts any more than it has to approve of alcoholics - we still retain our regulation of behavior both socially and criminally.

what we are doing now is not working

Not entirely correct. It is working quite nicely for a lot of people.

It is working great for the big drug cartels. So well they effectively own countries.

It is working great for big government agencies to justify bloated budgets.

It is working for all the agencies that benefit from forfeiture laws when they seize peoples cash and property.

It is working great for the private contractors who run prisons and manufacturers who use cheap prison labor.

It is working great for the street dealers and pushers who sell drugs tax free at black market prices.
Old Jul 21, 2012, 11:01 PM
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And now we see why even just decriminalization will never be tolerated by those well-monied interests whose expensive "free" speech trumps our own.
Old Jul 22, 2012, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by radix2 View Post
Criminalization of addiction simply turns one problem - addiction - into two problems - addiction and trafficking crime.

Decriminalization does not mean society has to approve of users/addicts any more than it has to approve of alcoholics - we still retain our regulation of behavior both socially and criminally.

what we are doing now is not working
Now that's the most sensible argument I've seen so far, radix2!

But... is it likely to 'cut drug use in half'?

And what about my concern of increased criminal activity due to increase need to get money etc for drugs?
Old Jul 22, 2012, 06:37 AM
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The system is working fine as it is now.

I don't see the problem.
Sell drugs, go to jail.
Get caught twice, go to jail for a very long time.
Third time and you're out... out of society for good.

I'd rather pay my tax money to keep them in prison... rather then have them out on the streets.
Old Jul 22, 2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard View Post
I just recently watch a TV program [dont recall the name ] in reference to northern CA. pot growers.
I couldnt believe my ears when they spoke about guys having 20 plants at 5k a piece in their back yards. Moments later they talked about the crimes taking place and crops raided .

If it were at the very least legal to grow one plant per person I doubt that crime would exist.
In CA they can grow a small quantity of plants legally.
Old Jul 22, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Norman Adlam View Post
Now that's the most sensible argument I've seen so far, radix2!

But... is it likely to 'cut drug use in half'?

And what about my concern of increased criminal activity due to increase need to get money etc for drugs?
Actually ... I think it will increase the number of actual users .... But we'll see a decrease over time in the number of addicts and abuse.
Old Jul 22, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Where decriminalization has in fact been done drug use has plummeted.

There are surely a bunch of reasons for this but my hunch is that the primary factor is that people simply looking for some weed no longer have to associate with the same people who are selling heroin and crack. Legalization tends to break up the drug culture and minimize the exploitative criminal element.

$0.02
Old Jul 22, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Real Ira View Post
Where decriminalization has in fact been done drug use has plummeted.

There are surely a bunch of reasons for this but my hunch is that the primary factor is that people simply looking for some weed no longer have to associate with the same people who are selling heroin and crack. Legalization tends to break up the drug culture and minimize the exploitative criminal element.

$0.02
Is that 'decriminalisation' of some drugs, rather than all drugs, though RI?
Old Jul 22, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Actually ... I think it will increase the number of actual users .... But we'll see a decrease over time in the number of addicts and abuse.
+1 - the first step to solving a problem is to make it visible - remove the prisons, guns and violence - then we have all those resources to apply to education and yes intervention if required to minimize the damage of addicts to themselves and others.

look at the very addicting cigarette paradigm - and I think it has been education 10:1 more effective than the high taxes (not that I am against them) - kids today think cig smokers are disgusting losers more often than not.
Old Jul 22, 2012, 04:37 PM
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Is that 'decriminalisation' of some drugs, rather than all drugs, though RI?
Most, and considering the results I wonder what would happen if they decriminalized the rest.
Old Jul 22, 2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Real Ira View Post
Where decriminalization has in fact been done drug use has plummeted.

There are surely a bunch of reasons for this but my hunch is that the primary factor is that people simply looking for some weed no longer have to associate with the same people who are selling heroin and crack. Legalization tends to break up the drug culture and minimize the exploitative criminal element.

$0.02
Note to self: That's the second time in this thread that I agree with Ira!


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